Future Transit Oriented Developments

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Chris Stritzel
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Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Hello everyone.

Some of you on here may know that I've had my hand in some real estate development projects in St. Louis (mostly hidden stuff that makes them special). As I'll be on my way to KC this fall, I'm starting to look at some potential development sites in KC that I can take and create something great on. Traditionally, whenever I do developments, I select a group of people (that I trust) to act as an advisory board. It's different than how some developers do things, but to me it helps create something special.

Without revealing too much about what I'm aiming for in Kansas City, I'll simply say that what I'd like to do all revolves around the streetcar line (both current and future). The streetcar, being free and linking up to several neighborhoods with walkable features, makes me feel like this area is "the place" to be. I have my own ideas of how TOD should be and mentioned on my mess of a twitter that I'd self-impose a parking maximum of .67 spaces per dwelling unit, but I want to hear your feedback and ideas.

How should TOD look in your view? What are features that you think would shine in such a development? Etc...

The ultimate goal with this is to ultimately compile ideas and keep people in the loop of next steps since most of us seem to share a common mindset when it comes to urban development. We might have different ways of saying things, but the end goal seems to be the same (less parking, higher quality design, higher density, more people, repeat).

Upon settling on some things, and formalizing agreements and such, I plan on inviting members or this forum to a special meeting, either over Zoom or in person, to see the plans for the first time and comment on them (like I do with my "advisory boards"). From there the fun would truly begin.

I hope this thread ends up applying to other developers who look at this forum to see what's up.

Let's see what happens. :idea: 8)
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by FlippantCitizen »

KC is lacking in for sale units. KC is also lacking in urban units oriented towards families. As I look at growing a family here I just don't see many non house options that would be suitable for more than one kid. Even the townhouses I see getting built here are two bedroom, relatively small, or pricey and tacky on north of the Plaza parcels. My only good option if I'm going to grow a family here is a house. My in-laws live in Portland in a three story unit on the South Waterfront that is on the base of a tower and has its own separate entrance to the street and apartments above. I think something on a smaller scale than that would be awesome. 2-3 level townhouses with an additional 2-3 levels of apartments above could be a really interesting form.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by Riverite »

Thanks Chris, really exciting to have you looking to develop in KC. I want to second what Flippant said with building row houses underneath with apartment above, I’ve seen this development in London which does it well https://goo.gl/maps/R95sPn6t1fT3eoG2A

I would personally like to see that kind of build in midtown, with more apartments on top depending on the junction (I.e. Main Street should be substantially higher than Westport road. Also focusing bottom floor retail on the main road with the rowhouses on the ancillary streets.

In river market/ Westport I’d like to see more like the infill proposed at 403 Delaware.

In the crossroads I would like to see the same taller sort of infill with retail on the bottom, or with wider bases buildings at least the height of Arterra. In the loop it should be tall, and be much more mixed use in my opinion than just bottom floor retail, although crossroads could also use some of this.

If it’s the neighborhoods adjacent to the streetcar I.e. west side or Columbus park I’d like to see the 5-6 stories with the same rowhouses below apartments above, or on residential streets 3 story dense rowhouses.

I think all of those options could fit well in the neighborhoods without generating too much adversity, and would really increase the density of what was there before.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by earthling »

Glad to see you engaging more with KC. Is this one of your projects?
https://www.4thstreetpartners.com/the-m ... residences
Chris Stritzel wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:02 am How should TOD look in your view? What are features that you think would shine in such a development? Etc...
Best TOD practices create amenities at transit stops and a contiguous pedestrian friendly flow from one block to the next, engaging with public, no isolated islands. Small things like awnings over sidewalks make a difference too. Any open parking should be located in rear and accessed from rear if possible, not along main drag.

Xroads and Midtown Main are the two obvious opportunities for projects that engage with the public at the street level. Rowhouses mentioned and isolated buildings might be more appropriate off Midtown main drags and a couple blocks off the streetcar line. Columbus Park mentioned also has good opportunities for this. I don't consider these most TOD friendly uses but KC does lack them and great for inner neighborhood streets.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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earthling wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:53 am Glad to see you engaging more with KC. Is this one of your projects?
https://www.4thstreetpartners.com/the-m ... residences
Correct. The Marigold is mine and has been a fun project to work on. The neighborhood it’s in has a bunch of design, setback, height, density, and parking requirements and I’m shocked we could get all those boxes checked with that plan. City of St. Louis is slow with the final review, but I should have approval by early May.

And thanks everyone who has commented your ideas so far. I’m taking notes.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by swid »

Without knowing how much input you have on the overall design of these projects, I'd like to see anyone try their hand at building a "modern" version of the KC Colonnade. While the number of units/building is presumably in a sub-optimal level of the ROI curve, I've always liked how their scale fits into residential neighborhoods.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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+1
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by earthling »

Colonnade and row houses are good ideas that might be suitable at Chris' scale but a bit off topic for TOD style development. TOD typically involves amenities at transit stops and entices fairly active pedestrian stretches, especially often involving some form of public access at street level whatever it might be. But those are definitely good ideas for Chris to consider to place within neighborhoods rather than specifically being TOD corridor developments.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by FlippantCitizen »

I don't know what the actual definition of TOD is but functionally in KC anything with a low parking ratio/no structured parking that is in a streetcar or MAX catchment could be considered TOD at least to myself. Totally agree though that if we are talking specifically about Main street and even more specifically the same corners as streetcar stops then row houses and colonnades don't make sense. I could tell Chris was really invigorated by seeing the 403 Delaware project and I'm hoping he brings some of that small project flavor and incrementalism to crossroads and midtown. I would hope that streets near to Main will be considered as well.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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I moved on to thinking about the broader catchment area after looking at a map and wondering how many properties are/will eventually be available for development immediately around the future stops on Main. It doesn't help that the largest project announced so far is *extremely* meh as far as TOD goes.

Even though I'm not a huge fan of some of the exterior decor decisions, the City Club project did a pretty good job of incorporating an extant building into the property and having a decent curbside presence. I think something similar would do well around 39th/Westport Rd (and may very well be the only way to keep the remaining buildings around 31st from being demolished).
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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swid wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:07 am Without knowing how much input you have on the overall design of these projects, I'd like to see anyone try their hand at building a "modern" version of the KC Colonnade. While the number of units/building is presumably in a sub-optimal level of the ROI curve, I've always liked how their scale fits into residential neighborhoods.
I'd love to eventually do one of those missing middle style buildings. Preferably, I'd like to reconstruct Knickerbocker Place because what KC Life did there was a sin. Unfortunately, my efforts of contacting them have landed no results but in the off chance they decide to contact me back, and allow me to buy that strip of property, I'd move quick to get those rebuilt.

On the ROI curve, for projects I'd be developing without partners, I'd try to make things work within a given number of years, but those projects would be long-term holds. I don't want to be in the business of buying, building and selling. I'm not a homebuilder, my goal's to be a community builder.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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earthling wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:34 am Colonnade and row houses are good ideas that might be suitable at Chris' scale but a bit off topic for TOD style development. TOD typically involves amenities at transit stops and entices fairly active pedestrian stretches, especially often involving some form of public access at street level whatever it might be. But those are definitely good ideas for Chris to consider to place within neighborhoods rather than specifically being TOD corridor developments.
They're not too off topic for the TOD discussion as they can be the "backbone" to larger developments along transit corridors. Say if a parcel extends to a primarily residential block, rowhomes and Collonade style buildings can really link the two together nicely and create a little bit more density than a primary component.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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FlippantCitizen wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:07 am I don't know what the actual definition of TOD is but functionally in KC anything with a low parking ratio/no structured parking that is in a streetcar or MAX catchment could be considered TOD at least to myself. Totally agree though that if we are talking specifically about Main street and even more specifically the same corners as streetcar stops then row houses and colonnades don't make sense. I could tell Chris was really invigorated by seeing the 403 Delaware project and I'm hoping he brings some of that small project flavor and incrementalism to crossroads and midtown. I would hope that streets near to Main will be considered as well.
Bingo. 413 Delaware is an excellent example for something I'd like to eventually do on smaller parcels, not just on the streetcar line but also across the city in the more urban areas. The main challenge with that is finding a parcel that can be had for a decent price where something like that would make financial sense. The benefit that the 413 Delaware people have is that they've owned that property for years. For me, I'd have to go out there and make contact with owners and try to buy thin lots and potentially have to spend more than I'd prefer. But we'll see.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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Chris Stritzel wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:28 pm
earthling wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:34 am Colonnade and row houses are good ideas that might be suitable at Chris' scale but a bit off topic for TOD style development. TOD typically involves amenities at transit stops and entices fairly active pedestrian stretches, especially often involving some form of public access at street level whatever it might be. But those are definitely good ideas for Chris to consider to place within neighborhoods rather than specifically being TOD corridor developments.
They're not too off topic for the TOD discussion as they can be the "backbone" to larger developments along transit corridors. Say if a parcel extends to a primarily residential block, rowhomes and Collonade style buildings can really link the two together nicely and create a little bit more density than a primary component.
^Yeah they are very good ideas for urban neighborhood infill architecture styles needed even if not TOD. Could be something unique you can offer rather than more lego block buildings others roll off assembly line. And you have more passion to get the details right than a typical lego block developer.

On a tangent, too many KC developers don't understand either urban neighborhood development or TOD. It's really important for the City to ensure TOD is done right directly along streetcar line. The 27th/Main building is an isolated island, exactly the opposite of what's needed. Developers who want to take advantage of what a free fare streetcar has to offer should be contributing something back with proper TOD, not exploit it and close self off as a private island. It's bad enough some developers don't 'get it' but even worse that the City is allowing it even with incentives.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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earthling wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:38 pm ^Yeah they are very good ideas for urban neighborhood infill architecture styles needed even if not TOD. Could be something unique you can offer rather than more lego block buildings others roll off assembly line. And you have more passion to get the details right than a typical lego block developer.

On a tangent, too many KC developers don't understand either urban neighborhood development or TOD. It's really important for the City to ensure TOD is done right directly along streetcar line. The 27th/Main building is an isolated island, exactly the opposite of what's needed. Developers who want to take advantage of what a free fare streetcar has to offer should be contributing something back with proper TOD, not exploit it and close self off as a private island. It's bad enough some developers don't 'get it' but even worse that the City is allowing it even with incentives.
Correct. If I'm working on a project, I guarantee that it'll break from the status quo of design a bit. The buildings we've seen go up in recent years are good filler and are proven models that are easily to replicate. What I'm trying to do is change that model a bit and be a bit more daring. This isn't an approach for every developer or organization, but this approach is a breath of fresh air compared to what has been done. It's also more fun and should yield positive results.

I only want to hire architects with as much of a passion, and obsession, for exceptional design. I only want to hire architects that truly "get it". KC is blessed to have a few of these firms and I'm happy to have made contact with them in recent weeks and months.

The 27th and Main office building is a true dud in my view. It's nice that a grassy field will be developed, but the design should've been better than what it is. Unfortunately, it's on par for Crown Center style development anyways.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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Really excited to see what you come up with, glad that you are doing this
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

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Riverite wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:52 pm Really excited to see what you come up with, glad that you are doing this
+1
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by daGOAT »

imo the main characteristics of TOD are proximity to high frequency transit stops, parking-ratios that promote transit use, and a solid mix of usage. also a modern take on the classic Colonnade apartments as well as for sale townhomes are ideal for back streets, similar to what Exact has planned with its Main Street Armory project or the Midtown Plaza project. excited to see what you're team comes up with and if i may a piece of advice. from what i've seen in alot of Council Chambers meetings with developers; the ones that see pushback stumble their words alot when it comes to details, the ones that i've seen fly through the process are good enough with words to make their project sound like a huge improvement. good luck man!
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by CrossroadsUrbanApts »

Oh boy, I'm taking notes on this thread. Excited to hear about Chris coming to KC and would love to meet in person some day.

I just put under contract some land two blocks from the streetcar line and am working on something a lot bigger than 1914 Main and Terrace on Walnut. But it is a challenging environment out there are the moment with how fast construction costs have risen.
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Re: Future Transit Oriented Developments

Post by earthling »

^What about construction costs for modular pod buildings like at 34th/Main? Could see a handful more of those (well variations of those) spread about Midtown and Xroads with a small retail spot facing street.

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