GRID wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:43 pm
There is no way they stay down long. I think one thing that hurts Pittsburgh is that its suburbs are not that great.
Except Pittsburgh literally hasn't grown since the 1930 census. But don't worry, somehow Pittsburgh & STL are gonna make miraculous comebacks unseen in the rust belt to stave off KC, meanwhile Indy & Columbus will step on the gas and rev by KC too....but as for KC? Nah, just a fluke and they're gonna flame out. Nevermind that the urban core and suburbs are growing simultaneously now for the first time since 1950.
Oh and JoCo is a below average suburb that's gonna flame out too.
The K-10 corridor has been primed for this kind of development for so long. I would love to see a high-tech manufacturing corridor develop all the way out to Lawrence’s east side business park. The parts all seem to be there.
GRID wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:43 pm
There is no way they stay down long. I think one thing that hurts Pittsburgh is that its suburbs are not that great.
Except Pittsburgh literally hasn't grown since the 1930 census. But don't worry, somehow Pittsburgh & STL are gonna make miraculous comebacks unseen in the rust belt to stave off KC, meanwhile Indy & Columbus will step on the gas and rev by KC too....but as for KC? Nah, just a fluke and they're gonna flame out. Nevermind that the urban core and suburbs are growing simultaneously now for the first time since 1950.
Oh and JoCo is a below average suburb that's gonna flame out too.
Neither has KCMO really if you look at the original city limits. The original city limits might be stable now, but it's still not growing like Denver or something which is fine, but just saying, you are not really being fair to Pittsburgh. Also, with the amount of land KCMO has, it's actually one of the more failing cities in the country at adding population. KCMO has 316 sq miles (half of which is open land) and it still lost people nearly as fast as landlocked cities. It's getting better now, but I would be interested to see KCMO population numbers by census tract.
My point is Pittsburgh is a pretty cool city that has gone through some rough time due to it being so reliant on heavy industry. Their economy has diversified and it's a pretty neat city. I just think Pittsburgh will remain top 30 metro for some time. Same with St Louis although St Louis has a larger uphill climb because they have such a suburban culture there.
All I was saying is that KC has been a bubble "major league" city for some time and it looks like it will remain a bubble city (Unless KC gets hot), which is possible. You never know.
Last edited by GRID on Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:12 pm
The K-10 corridor has been primed for this kind of development for so long. I would love to see a high-tech manufacturing corridor develop all the way out to Lawrence’s east side business park. The parts all seem to be there.
I have always thought of Lawrence to KC as Boulder is to Denver. I mean Lawrence even has transit service to metro KC along K-10. KC needs to be more interconnected to Lawrence and KU so a tech corridor along K-10 would be good for the metro. So long as it comes more at the expense of Overland Park etc and not KCMO, which is likely anyway for the types of companies that would locate there. Metro KC would be much better off if K-10 developed than that stuff going up in far south Overland Park.
KC Metro has seen about an average of 200k new residents every decade, I believe its safe to say that trend will continue. The growth that's truly crucial to the region is the city which grew by 50k so if we can maintain that growth, or better yet accelerate it, then we will see change. Even if KC doesn't become a top 30 metro again it still has the chance to become more dense, more sustainable, and more exciting which is still a win given how many amazing charms the city had when it was in decline. Fingers crossed the city grows past 550K in 2030!
CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:12 pm
The K-10 corridor has been primed for this kind of development for so long. I would love to see a high-tech manufacturing corridor develop all the way out to Lawrence’s east side business park. The parts all seem to be there.
I have always thought of Lawrence to KC as Boulder is to Denver. I mean Lawrence even has transit service to metro KC along K-10. KC needs to be more interconnected to Lawrence and KU so a tech corridor along K-10 would be good for the metro. So long as it comes more at the expense of Overland Park etc and not KCMO, which is likely anyway for the types of companies that would locate there. Metro KC would be much better off if K-10 developed than that stuff going up in far south Overland Park.
I agree, we need to do a better job of connecting both physically and culturally to Lawrence and Columbia. UMKC has a lot of exchange with both universities. I'm not sure what kind of transit could be feasible, Amtrak is only $11 to Lawrence but only 1x a day it's not really feasible. I used to work with a person who commuted daily from Lawrence, not a fun drive but I think there's def a contingent of super commuters who do that drive regularly, at least used to pre covid. You're preaching to the 'sprawl is bad' choir over here, but it's inveitable that KC metro will eventually grow into Lawrence, especially now that Sunflower plant area is opening up for development. This project would be a great jump start for that area between the cities. De Soto and Western JoCo is already seeing denser residential development as people are pushed further out in search of SFH at lower price points. KS need to be smarter with right sizing development focused within towns like De Soto creating apartments and smaller lots in neighborhoods instead of just exurban sprawl with large lots (which is what will probably happen).
Denver is still finalizing their commuter rail expansion to Boulder and it's facing pushback due to low ridership systemwide (see the Regional Transit Planning for long discussion about Denver rail issues LOL). Rail to Lawrence was tossed around back in the 2000s, I doubt it'd be any more feasible now either.
CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:12 pm
The K-10 corridor has been primed for this kind of development for so long. I would love to see a high-tech manufacturing corridor develop all the way out to Lawrence’s east side business park. The parts all seem to be there.
I have always thought of Lawrence to KC as Boulder is to Denver. I mean Lawrence even has transit service to metro KC along K-10. KC needs to be more interconnected to Lawrence and KU so a tech corridor along K-10 would be good for the metro. So long as it comes more at the expense of Overland Park etc and not KCMO, which is likely anyway for the types of companies that would locate there. Metro KC would be much better off if K-10 developed than that stuff going up in far south Overland Park.
I agree, we need to do a better job of connecting both physically and culturally to Lawrence and Columbia. UMKC has a lot of exchange with both universities. I'm not sure what kind of transit could be feasible, Amtrak is only $11 to Lawrence but only 1x a day it's not really feasible. I used to work with a person who commuted daily from Lawrence, not a fun drive but I think there's def a contingent of super commuters who do that drive regularly, at least used to pre covid. You're preaching to the 'sprawl is bad' choir over here, but it's inveitable that KC metro will eventually grow into Lawrence, especially now that Sunflower plant area is opening up for development. This project would be a great jump start for that area between the cities. De Soto and Western JoCo is already seeing denser residential development as people are pushed further out in search of SFH at lower price points. KS need to be smarter with right sizing development focused within towns like De Soto creating apartments and smaller lots in neighborhoods instead of just exurban sprawl with large lots (which is what will probably happen).
Denver is still finalizing their commuter rail expansion to Boulder and it's facing pushback due to low ridership systemwide (see the Regional Transit Planning for long discussion about Denver rail issues LOL). Rail to Lawrence was tossed around back in the 2000s, I doubt it'd be any more feasible now either.
Even something like the Flatiron Flyer route between Denver and Boulder would be great. That K-10 route will never support rail. What would be nice is if Lawrence was more connected to central KCMO/KCK/KUMed and not just JoCo.
I saw somewhere that Kdot was planning to widen K-10. Would be good if they tried to incorporate transit into that. Again, something like Flatiron Flyer "lite" would be a start.
Last edited by GRID on Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 10:37 am
KC Metro has seen about an average of 200k new residents every decade, I believe its safe to say that trend will continue. The growth that's truly crucial to the region is the city which grew by 50k so if we can maintain that growth, or better yet accelerate it, then we will see change. Even if KC doesn't become a top 30 metro again it still has the chance to become more dense, more sustainable, and more exciting which is still a win given how many amazing charms the city had when it was in decline. Fingers crossed the city grows past 550K in 2030!
Agreed. I only l make the point about the top 30 when people start acting like KC doesn't need to bend over for the sports teams. There is no way around it. KC will have to spend a good deal of public money to keep the pro teams in the city. If it doesn't other cities will.
And yes, it's so nice to see KCMO growing in population. I mean for the longest time, it barely grew at all or lost people despite being one of largest and most undeveloped cities in the country with all the new annexations. Compare KCMO to other cities that have massive city limits and KCMO is a pretty big fail. But things are starting to turn around in both the urban core and KCMOs suburban parts.
KCMO should be a city of 600-700k by now had metro suburban growth not basically avoided the northland for decades. Hopefully it will continue. I would still like to see exactly where the growth is by census tract. I'm sure it's all in downtown and midtown and shoal creek, but it would be interesting to see what the rest of the city is doing.
Last edited by GRID on Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 10:37 am
KC Metro has seen about an average of 200k new residents every decade, I believe its safe to say that trend will continue. The growth that's truly crucial to the region is the city which grew by 50k so if we can maintain that growth, or better yet accelerate it, then we will see change. Even if KC doesn't become a top 30 metro again it still has the chance to become more dense, more sustainable, and more exciting which is still a win given how many amazing charms the city had when it was in decline. Fingers crossed the city grows past 550K in 2030!
And even on the original city lines, KC posted its first decade gain this last decade since 1950. Even that’s starting to come around.I think you can thank the streetcar and urban revival for that obviously. It’s not happening in most Midwest cities. If you look at Indy, their urban core is growing far slower than KC. It’s just their suburbs making them grow fast.
I looked at some of the census data last year on a neighborhood level and alot of the eastside tracts had stabilized in population. I do think that's a benefit that we can build on that none of our neighborhoods are losing people anymore. A growing eastside would compliment the growth in the downtown/midtown/northside and give more options to urban living as the years go by especially if the city keeps growing. Lastly I definitely agree with Grid a 600-700k population would definitely be a much healthier livelier Kansas City.
Keep in mind that's it's harder to add population now because of demographic trends. Parents aren't having five and six children. A significant percentage of households are just one person, or two. Many houses are occupied by singles.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:20 pm
I looked at some of the census data last year on a neighborhood level and alot of the eastside tracts had stabilized in population. I do think that's a benefit that we can build on that none of our neighborhoods are losing people anymore. A growing eastside would compliment the growth in the downtown/midtown/northside and give more options to urban living as the years go by especially if the city keeps growing. Lastly I definitely agree with Grid a 600-700k population would definitely be a much healthier livelier Kansas City.
If you look at the population trends of KC:
1980.. -11.6%
1990.. -2.9%
2000.. 1.5%
2010.. 4.1%
2020.. 10.5%
Since the 1980 census, KC proper has been gaining (and basically doubling the %) every single year. 2020 we finally hit double digits. If the trends continue we could be seeing 15% this decade.
Now, some people will jump in and say "woof woof it's all the Northland" but that's not actually the whole picture.
The pre-WW2 KC boundary actually increased for the first time *since the 1940-1950 decade*. That right there is the realest sign in decades we're making serious progress. It grew about 4.8%. I'd expect that gets even higher over this decade. With the real urban core finally growing we might be able to really boom in growth.
Some good data here on KCMO population. 2010-2020 numbers are quite different than past years. Every district added people, the east side and south side was relatively stable.
KCMO really should de-annex a lot of land like east east of Raytown, east of Grandview as well as everything north of the 435 in Platte County at the very least.
Last edited by GRID on Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:56 pm
Keep in mind that's it's harder to add population now because of demographic trends. Parents aren't having five and six children. A significant percentage of households are just one person, or two. Many houses are occupied by singles.
Very true but I have seen a lot of househoulds, overwhelmingly on the eastside, that are overcrowded. Personally my household in high school a few years back had 10 people within a 3 bedroom home on St John and it seemed like a large percentage of my friends lived in similar conditions. As credit to your point I also have had neighbors, generally older, whom lived by themselves in 3 bedroom houses.
Yes, it's crazy town. On my street there is a family of five living in a 792 sq ft 2-bedroome/1-bath and next door is an elderly woman living in a 1,518 sq ft 4-bedroom/1-bath alone. Another family of five is living in a 1000 sq ft 2-bedroom/1-bath across the street. Two houses down from the elderly lady is a 1,855 sq ft 3-bedroom/2-bath that was until very recently occupied by one man. It was flipped last year and I haven't done a headcount on the new occupants yet.
In the 1,848 sq ft 3-bedroom/2-bath across from mine, there were 10 person family living there when it was a rental. It was flipped two years ago, and now has two people living there. Two sets of adult parents, a grandmother, and five kids. Next door to that house is another 1,394 sq ft 3-bedroom/1-bath with one person in it.
There seems to be a lot of people who never downsize to allow the bigger houses to go to bigger families.
Panasonic is seeking to bolster its ability to produce batteries that enable EVs with a longer driving range and is considering spending “several hundreds of billions of yen” on the factory, according to NHK.
Oklahoma state government is close to passing a bill that would likely result in Tesla service and sales centers closing down in that state in their attempt to protect the dated car dealership (screw the consumer) model. If I'm an exec at Panasonic I would definitely be considering the impact of opening a factory in a state that is trying its best to reduce revenue for the very product that these batteries go into. I would think if this bill passes it would help Kansas's chances assuming all the other tax incentives are close.
bones.25 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:47 pm
Oklahoma state government is close to passing a bill that would likely result in Tesla service and sales centers closing down in that state in their attempt to protect the dated car dealership (screw the consumer) model. If I'm an exec at Panasonic I would definitely be considering the impact of opening a factory in a state that is trying its best to reduce revenue for the very product that these batteries go into. I would think if this bill passes it would help Kansas's chances assuming all the other tax incentives are close.
I hate that stupid law and hate dealing with middle men car dealers, the only places these bills are passed are in very conservative states, would love to see a state like minnesota do the opposite
