New Chiefs Stadium

[TheLastGentleman]

I would be shocked if anything was built on any of the TSC lots. They could’ve built something in between the two stadiums at any time over the last 50 years but it’s never happened, so with the more active half of the complex (the ballpark) gone, I really don’t see any chance

Were you shocked by village west?

No because it’s not a football stadium standing alone in the middle of a giant parking lot

[KCPowercat]

it was a giant nascar track standing alone and development went around it and less population was out around that?

[dukuboy1]

Honestly if you’re making Jerry World comparisons, Village West is more apt. Jerry World has two other baseball stadiums, six flags, Texas Live and a couple museums right there.

just used Jerry world as a phrase not tit-for-tat comparison. The main point is if the Chiefs get access to all that land they can have a blank canvas to do whatever they want that is 100% focus around the Chiefs and generating revenue for the Chiefs.

Village West has, NASACR, SKC, Monarchs(forgot them last time), Great Wolf Lodge, Hollywood Casino. Each one of those things would be nice amenities to have if you were an NFL franchise. But I just do not see the Chiefs wanting to partner and negotiate with these groups on what their "vision" would be when they could have all of the TSC to themselves to build how they see fit.

[GRID]

Honestly if you’re making Jerry World comparisons, Village West is more apt. Jerry World has two other baseball stadiums, six flags, Texas Live and a couple museums right there.

just used Jerry world as a phrase not tit-for-tat comparison. The main point is if the Chiefs get access to all that land they can have a blank canvas to do whatever they want that is 100% focus around the Chiefs and generating revenue for the Chiefs.

Village West has, NASACR, SKC, Monarchs(forgot them last time), Great Wolf Lodge, Hollywood Casino. Each one of those things would be nice amenities to have if you were an NFL franchise. But I just do not see the Chiefs wanting to partner and negotiate with these groups on what their "vision" would be when they could have all of the TSC to themselves to build how they see fit.

How would any of that "help" the Chiefs? The only thing that will help the Chiefs is if they are able to build whatever they want to build. Not be next to other businesses that may only take revenue from them.

For the 10000000th time. Stadiums do not generate development around them. Development has to be forced near stadiums. This is even more true for NFL stadiums. All that stuff at village west didn't just go there because of the speedway. It went there because KCK wanted it to be there. The city gave away land and then star bonded new development and every time anything new comes along, it's still subsidized at incredible levels.

If KCK just built a speedway and walked away, there would be very little else out there today. It's on a very edge of the metro and in a very low population, low income part of the metro.

It would make no sense for the Chiefs to leave the TSC unless Kansas somehow gave the Chiefs a billion dollar blank check that MO couldn't match.

[alejandro46]

Honestly if you’re making Jerry World comparisons, Village West is more apt. Jerry World has two other baseball stadiums, six flags, Texas Live and a couple museums right there.

just used Jerry world as a phrase not tit-for-tat comparison. The main point is if the Chiefs get access to all that land they can have a blank canvas to do whatever they want that is 100% focus around the Chiefs and generating revenue for the Chiefs.

Village West has, NASACR, SKC, Monarchs(forgot them last time), Great Wolf Lodge, Hollywood Casino. Each one of those things would be nice amenities to have if you were an NFL franchise. But I just do not see the Chiefs wanting to partner and negotiate with these groups on what their "vision" would be when they could have all of the TSC to themselves to build how they see fit.

How would any of that "help" the Chiefs? The only thing that will help the Chiefs is if they are able to build whatever they want to build. Not be next to other businesses that may only take revenue from them.

For the 10000000th time. Stadiums do not generate development around them. Development has to be forced near stadiums. This is even more true for NFL stadiums. All that stuff at village west didn't just go there because of the speedway. It went there because KCK wanted it to be there. The city gave away land and then star bonded new development and every time anything new comes along, it's still subsidized at incredible levels.

If KCK just built a speedway and walked away, there would be very little else out there today. It's on a very edge of the metro and in a very low population, low income part of the metro.

It would make no sense for the Chiefs to leave the TSC unless Kansas somehow gave the Chiefs a billion dollar blank check that MO couldn't match.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_development

Thanks to gobs of tax breaks, the momentum for new development began and more and more things got out there. Developers look for other anchor stores and as more and more things draw people, there is spin off development. I would guess that Nebraska Furniture Mart does a better spin off effect than the Speedway and Sporting, but combined they all cluster to be able to support each other on an ongoing basis, but they could not have been developed in the first place without the cheap land and tax incentives. Now that all that retail is out there, they are being smart and building apartments which will help build a base level of customers in the vicinity who will shop there due to its convenience, but without those shops they probably wouldn't have moved there (since it was basically in the middle no nowhere by a racetrack).

Sprawl gonna sprawl.

HOWEVER, KCMO, JackCo, and MO can do a similar and better job with the Chiefs leading the way at Truman occupied exclusively by the Chiefs. Lots of vacant land, potential transit connections to DT/Rock Island RR... Just need the incentives and political capital to get it done.

[AlkaliAxel]

Washington Commanders buy $100 mil in land to jump the state line from Maryland to Virginia.

As I said a few months ago- watch this whole ordeal as a precedent for what may happen with the Chiefs.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/339 ... le-stadium

The Commanders buying that property shows why the Chiefs are more likely to stay at the TSC than move to Kansas. Everybody thought the new stadium in the DC area would end up in NOVA near the silver line metro as part of some huge mixed use development. The site they chose is not near all the big office parks etc.

Turns out they just want a bunch of land so they can do what they want and have enough room to charge everybody for parking. The current FedEX Field does not have enough parking or any room to develop. The Chiefs are not going to move to something like Village West where they won't be able to control all the parking and all nearby development.

Once the Royals move, the Chiefs will either build a new stadium or do a major rebuild of Arrowhead. They will then build have more parking and build some supporting retail, maybe a hotel etc. They don't need or want a mall or anything like that.

It will just come down to the MO side extending the stadium tax and other revenue sources to help them do this. Also is going to depend on if Jackson County will turn over most of the TSC land to the Chiefs after the Royals leave.

Concur. That was my assessment of it as well.

[im2kull]

Honestly if you’re making Jerry World comparisons, Village West is more apt. Jerry World has two other baseball stadiums, six flags, Texas Live and a couple museums right there.

just used Jerry world as a phrase not tit-for-tat comparison. The main point is if the Chiefs get access to all that land they can have a blank canvas to do whatever they want that is 100% focus around the Chiefs and generating revenue for the Chiefs.

Village West has, NASACR, SKC, Monarchs(forgot them last time), Great Wolf Lodge, Hollywood Casino. Each one of those things would be nice amenities to have if you were an NFL franchise. But I just do not see the Chiefs wanting to partner and negotiate with these groups on what their "vision" would be when they could have all of the TSC to themselves to build how they see fit.

How would any of that "help" the Chiefs? The only thing that will help the Chiefs is if they are able to build whatever they want to build. Not be next to other businesses that may only take revenue from them.

For the 10000000th time. Stadiums do not generate development around them. Development has to be forced near stadiums. This is even more true for NFL stadiums. All that stuff at village west didn't just go there because of the speedway. It went there because KCK wanted it to be there. The city gave away land and then star bonded new development and every time anything new comes along, it's still subsidized at incredible levels.

If KCK just built a speedway and walked away, there would be very little else out there today. It's on a very edge of the metro and in a very low population, low income part of the metro.

It would make no sense for the Chiefs to leave the TSC unless Kansas somehow gave the Chiefs a billion dollar blank check that MO couldn't match.

I'm not sure how everyone can't comprehend this.

The Chiefs use the stadium for games 8 days of the year. EIGHT. of 365. Ya'll think that'll cause some spin-off significant developments? LOLOLOL

[normalthings]

just used Jerry world as a phrase not tit-for-tat comparison. The main point is if the Chiefs get access to all that land they can have a blank canvas to do whatever they want that is 100% focus around the Chiefs and generating revenue for the Chiefs.

Village West has, NASACR, SKC, Monarchs(forgot them last time), Great Wolf Lodge, Hollywood Casino. Each one of those things would be nice amenities to have if you were an NFL franchise. But I just do not see the Chiefs wanting to partner and negotiate with these groups on what their "vision" would be when they could have all of the TSC to themselves to build how they see fit.

How would any of that "help" the Chiefs? The only thing that will help the Chiefs is if they are able to build whatever they want to build. Not be next to other businesses that may only take revenue from them.

For the 10000000th time. Stadiums do not generate development around them. Development has to be forced near stadiums. This is even more true for NFL stadiums. All that stuff at village west didn't just go there because of the speedway. It went there because KCK wanted it to be there. The city gave away land and then star bonded new development and every time anything new comes along, it's still subsidized at incredible levels.

If KCK just built a speedway and walked away, there would be very little else out there today. It's on a very edge of the metro and in a very low population, low income part of the metro.

It would make no sense for the Chiefs to leave the TSC unless Kansas somehow gave the Chiefs a billion dollar blank check that MO couldn't match.

I'm not sure how everyone can't comprehend this.

The Chiefs use the stadium for games 8 days of the year. EIGHT. of 365. Ya'll think that'll cause some spin-off significant developments? LOLOLOL

American Royal and the e gaming stadium will really solidly Village West as a destination. Hate to say it but they are poaching a lot of trip drivers that should be in and around downtown. I would not be surprised if they pursue a small convention center next.

[dukuboy1]

Honestly if you’re making Jerry World comparisons, Village West is more apt. Jerry World has two other baseball stadiums, six flags, Texas Live and a couple museums right there.

just used Jerry world as a phrase not tit-for-tat comparison. The main point is if the Chiefs get access to all that land they can have a blank canvas to do whatever they want that is 100% focus around the Chiefs and generating revenue for the Chiefs.

Village West has, NASACR, SKC, Monarchs(forgot them last time), Great Wolf Lodge, Hollywood Casino. Each one of those things would be nice amenities to have if you were an NFL franchise. But I just do not see the Chiefs wanting to partner and negotiate with these groups on what their "vision" would be when they could have all of the TSC to themselves to build how they see fit.

How would any of that "help" the Chiefs? The only thing that will help the Chiefs is if they are able to build whatever they want to build. Not be next to other businesses that may only take revenue from them.

For the 10000000th time. Stadiums do not generate development around them. Development has to be forced near stadiums. This is even more true for NFL stadiums. All that stuff at village west didn't just go there because of the speedway. It went there because KCK wanted it to be there. The city gave away land and then star bonded new development and every time anything new comes along, it's still subsidized at incredible levels.

If KCK just built a speedway and walked away, there would be very little else out there today. It's on a very edge of the metro and in a very low population, low income part of the metro.

It would make no sense for the Chiefs to leave the TSC unless Kansas somehow gave the Chiefs a billion dollar blank check that MO couldn't match.

I'm not saying it will happen just saying the ease of use is more advantageous for the Chiefs at TSC than Village West. We have other examples in the NFL of teams wanting to do development with the stadium as the anchor. I think that's what is proposed in Buffalo, what Foxboro has and perhaps there are others. I do not know 100% so if you have better details wonderful and I thank you in advance for correcting me. IMO I think the talk of the Chiefs going to Village West is just that, talk. Speaking points to leverage Jackson County, KCMO, and state of MO to get money from them to keep it where it is at. This is my point and it appears you agree

[moderne]

Would Clark Hunt think about putting it on his largest KC investment? Somewhere above the Subtropolis?

[dukuboy1]

I doubt they would build around Subtropolis. Putting it on top I think would be very expensive from an engineering standpoint. Plus I think a lot of the land around there they own they have already started to sell off for data centers and other developments. Kind of a tucked away spot over there as well with access that would need to be vastly improved, especially from 291 and 210 to where the stadium might be. The have ample room to make improvements but they would have to be made. If they move I only really see moving to KS suburbs somewhere as an option. Otherwise they stay at TSC

[Rusty Irish]

just used Jerry world as a phrase not tit-for-tat comparison. The main point is if the Chiefs get access to all that land they can have a blank canvas to do whatever they want that is 100% focus around the Chiefs and generating revenue for the Chiefs.

Village West has, NASACR, SKC, Monarchs(forgot them last time), Great Wolf Lodge, Hollywood Casino. Each one of those things would be nice amenities to have if you were an NFL franchise. But I just do not see the Chiefs wanting to partner and negotiate with these groups on what their "vision" would be when they could have all of the TSC to themselves to build how they see fit.

How would any of that "help" the Chiefs? The only thing that will help the Chiefs is if they are able to build whatever they want to build. Not be next to other businesses that may only take revenue from them.

For the 10000000th time. Stadiums do not generate development around them. Development has to be forced near stadiums. This is even more true for NFL stadiums. All that stuff at village west didn't just go there because of the speedway. It went there because KCK wanted it to be there. The city gave away land and then star bonded new development and every time anything new comes along, it's still subsidized at incredible levels.

If KCK just built a speedway and walked away, there would be very little else out there today. It's on a very edge of the metro and in a very low population, low income part of the metro.

It would make no sense for the Chiefs to leave the TSC unless Kansas somehow gave the Chiefs a billion dollar blank check that MO couldn't match.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_development

Thanks to gobs of tax breaks, the momentum for new development began and more and more things got out there. Developers look for other anchor stores and as more and more things draw people, there is spin off development. I would guess that Nebraska Furniture Mart does a better spin off effect than the Speedway and Sporting, but combined they all cluster to be able to support each other on an ongoing basis, but they could not have been developed in the first place without the cheap land and tax incentives. Now that all that retail is out there, they are being smart and building apartments which will help build a base level of customers in the vicinity who will shop there due to its convenience, but without those shops they probably wouldn't have moved there (since it was basically in the middle no nowhere by a racetrack).

Sprawl gonna sprawl.

HOWEVER, KCMO, JackCo, and MO can do a similar and better job with the Chiefs leading the way at Truman occupied exclusively by the Chiefs. Lots of vacant land, potential transit connections to DT/Rock Island RR... Just need the incentives and political capital to get it done.

Yep. Thats the thing, if they went to Village West it makes it much easier to justify building a Ballpark Village type destination when you have other things that can attract people to it in order to make the development sustainable year round beyond 10 Chiefs games per year. Theres no soccer games, nascar, baseball, retail attractions at TSC that can attract people outside of gamedays.

[DColeKC]

The right location could spur some development. Look at the Jacksonville project Cordish is involved in.

However, the stadium alone isn't enough. In Jacksonville, you have the St Johns river as another feature which makes residential possible. Here in KC, building out TSC with retail and residential makes little sense but an area like the West Bottoms would work very well. It's actually similar to the Jacksonville project.

[AlkaliAxel]

The right location could spur some development. Look at the Jacksonville project Cordish is involved in.

However, the stadium alone isn't enough. In Jacksonville, you have the St Johns river as another feature which makes residential possible. Here in KC, building out TSC with retail and residential makes little sense but an area like the West Bottoms would work very well. It's actually similar to the Jacksonville project.

This is exactly why they need to move downtown.

[GRID]

Not even sure the WB is a great idea for a NFL stadium. Other than the possibility of it being in both MO and KS which would not only make it easier to fund, but make it very unique.

A stadium in the WB would still be a gigantic dead zone and it would still need tens of thousands of parking spaces that would rarely be used.

"forced development" can happen anywhere. There is a reason the area around the stadium in Jacksonville sat un touched for decades. The river doesn't matter. What matters is how much money a developer and the city want to invest in building up the area around a stadium.

Moving Arrowhead from the TSC where you have parking you have access to two interstates you have room for development if you want all in a very central location to the entire metro would be one of the most boneheaded things KC could do. So I guess that means it has a pretty good chance of happening.

[AlkaliAxel]

A stadium in the WB would still be a gigantic dead zone

What about those 10-year development plans they just dropped for West Bottoms?

[GRID]

A stadium in the WB would still be a gigantic dead zone

What about those 10-year development plans they just dropped for West Bottoms?

What about it. That's great for the area. I do not understand your point.

[AlkaliAxel]

A stadium in the WB would still be a gigantic dead zone

What about those 10-year development plans they just dropped for West Bottoms?

What about it. That's great for the area. I do not understand your point.

You're saying WB is a deadzone so the Chiefs stadium would just be isolated around nothing. But they are planning on building up WB now apparently- so a stadium in WB could actually be nearby some good active development. It could turn out to be a great stadium district with those new plans. And I believe there's a river nearby as well.

[GRID]

No, I'm saying putting a football stadium down there would create a giant dead zone and encourage surrounding lots to remain or become parking lots. Not to mention there are very few places it could go that would not require demolition of existing buildings that could be repurposed. I don't see the cities of KCMO and KCK buying up dozens of active industrial buildings and kicking out their tax paying businesses for a stadium.

There is absolutely no way to make an NFL stadium work in an urban environment.

Like I said, having one cross state line would be kind of cool, but nothing else about moving the stadium to any other part of the metro makes sense especially into the urban core.

Better transit to arrowhead and Jackson county in general is by far the best investment the city could make.

[alejandro46]

Agreed. It's TSC or Village West. Please be serious, think about all of the associated infrastructure required for an NFL stadium. It's just very unlikely that it would go anywhere else. I love the WB, and I think that a stadium will not work there, there's not enough room by Kemper and that area is super cut off from the rest of DT. Improve transit to TSC.