New Chiefs Stadium

[TheUrbanRoo]

This is right, but it also complicated. Everyone knows that SKC is looking at eventually moving downtown.

Why didn't SKC come downtown in the first place?

[DColeKC]

This is right, but it also complicated. Everyone knows that SKC is looking at eventually moving downtown.

Why didn't SKC come downtown in the first place?

Kansas gave them everything and a happy ending to land it over there. It's a stepping stone stadium.

[normalthings]

This is right, but it also complicated. Everyone knows that SKC is looking at eventually moving downtown.

Why didn't SKC come downtown in the first place?

Kansas gave them everything and a happy ending to land it over there. It's a stepping stone stadium.

Downtown wasn’t being looked at. Bannister was with a large mixed use live work play district. Incentives won the day on this.

SKC and Cerner were always going to build together. Kansas gave great incentives to build both aspects. Iirc, KC & MO weren’t willing or able to do more. However, I think a Bannister SKC would have had little chance of ever moving downtown.

I have wondered if SKC staying in the hands of Hunt would have led to the team coming downtown by now.

[WoodDraw]

Why didn't SKC come downtown in the first place?

Kansas gave them everything and a happy ending to land it over there. It's a stepping stone stadium.

Downtown wasn’t being looked at. Bannister was with a large mixed use live work play district. Incentives won the day on this.

SKC and Cerner were always going to build together. Kansas gave great incentives to build both aspects. Iirc, KC & MO weren’t willing or able to do more. However, I think a Bannister SKC would have had little chance of ever moving downtown.

I have wondered if SKC staying in the hands of Hunt would have led to the team coming downtown by now.

This is largely correct. SKC had no interest in moving downtown. It was between banister and the current site.

They realized it later.

[there was some effort put into the river market but it's not worth discussing]

[TheUrbanRoo]

If the Royals go to EV, then where would you put their stadium other than Wash Park?

[WoodDraw]

If the Royals go to EV, then where would you put their stadium other than Wash Park?

Other issues aside, they make a significant amount of money parking.

I don't think that's a revenue they're willing to give up on.

Remember, in American sports franchises it's pretty typical to expect to take money out of the team.

It's not like international sports where they retain rights. Most of them have been bargained away

[normalthings]

What if you put Arrowhead 2 in Paseo West?

Royals in EV will already lead to much of Paseo West being converted into parking. Large swaths of institutional ownership east of Paseo serve as a fire wall to further parking in NE. There is minimal housing in Paseo West as is.

Chiefs in Paseo West means more yearly demand for a Royals mixed-use district. They could both feed off of an Independence Blvd or Paseo LRT line. 4-5,000 feet to Marriott and Loews, respectively. Doable for Super Bowl, AFC Championship, FIFA, stadium-tour crowds.

[TheUrbanRoo]

What if you put Arrowhead 2 in Paseo West?

Love this idea or West Bottoms. Would choose this one over WB.

Also would give us a case to do something major to the East Loop

[normalthings]

What if you put Arrowhead 2 in Paseo West?

Love this idea or West Bottoms. Would choose this one over WB.

Also would give us a case to do something major to the East Loop

West Bottoms runs the risk of making the same mistake as Kemper.

Pass West utilizes Kauffman 2.0 and downtown garages. Any new surface lots probably would have happened anyways.

[DColeKC]

The Chiefs would need a massive plot of land at least 8 million square feet. There’s just no reason to leave TSC. They don’t have an attendance problem like the royals and they don’t have a revenue “problem” per say, they just don’t have enough premium ticket options and suites.

Location wise, it doesn’t get much better than TSC for a football stadium. The only debate on the table in my opinion is rehab arrowhead in place or build a new version next door.


Or, my suggestion (listen to me Clark!), modernize arrowhead and build amphitheater utilizing existing field footprint at the K.

[WoodDraw]

I think the idea that chiefs fans are going to drive and park somewhere, walk to east village to sit in a bar, walk to paseo west to watch, and than back is a little fanciful.

I don't see a reason to turn a whole area into a parking lot. Just keep it where it is.

[GRID]

The Chiefs would need a massive plot of land at least 8 million square feet. There’s just no reason to leave TSC. They don’t have an attendance problem like the royals and they don’t have a revenue “problem” per say, they just don’t have enough premium ticket options and suites.

Location wise, it doesn’t get much better than TSC for a football stadium. The only debate on the table in my opinion is rehab arrowhead in place or build a new version next door.


Or, my suggestion (listen to me Clark!), modernize arrowhead and build amphitheater utilizing existing field footprint at the K.

This. Said it a million times. There is no reason to move the Chiefs from the TSC especially if the Royals leave and the Chiefs can improve the area.

And while I don't know if Kauffman could be properly converted to an amphitheater, KC could use a much nicer amphitheater and that would be a perfect spot for one. Starlight is one of the better amphitheaters in the country, but doesn't attract major concerts does it? It's for plays and smaller concerts.

[normalthings]

I think the idea that chiefs fans are going to drive and park somewhere, walk to east village to sit in a bar, walk to paseo west to watch, and than back is a little fanciful.

I don't see a reason to turn a whole area into a parking lot. Just keep it where it is.

Paseo West will be decimated by parking lots if Royals move to East Village. North Crossroads likely will see some of this too. There are a lot of benefits to moving this stadium to Paseo West with minimal additional costs to the urban fabric.


Paseo West is ~7.5 million sqft
Nissan Stadium has 4.3 million sqft (much of this they want to develop).
IND: 2-3 million sqft

Tailgating is a big piece of Chiefs Culture, but it doesn't mean everyone wants to or needs to drive. If parking, mixed-use, hotels, interstate, transit, and other infra is going in for Royals, it makes sense to place other similar uses nearby.

[WoodDraw]

I guess I don't believe surface parking and urban stadiums go hand and hand.

I'll vocally oppose any urban stadiums that rely on surface lots.

[normalthings]

I guess I don't believe surface parking and urban stadiums go hand and hand.

I'll vocally oppose any urban stadiums that rely on surface lots.

Surface lots are going to happen unless Royals also buy up Paseo West and North Crossroads. Might as well get some efficiencies out of all the infra investments made for Royals in EV

[Rusty Irish]

I guess I don't believe surface parking and urban stadiums go hand and hand.

I'll vocally oppose any urban stadiums that rely on surface lots.

People would just adapt and do different things pre game IMO, and tbh I'd imagine this who would want to continue to tailgate would find a way to do so. There was a study done in Charlotte showing that hotel occupancy downtown goes up 40% when the Panthers have a home game, and sales at restaurants within walking distance of both the stadium and NBA arena increase when sports events take place. There was also similar findings in Oklahoma City with sales at establishments within a mile of the arena up 20% on gamedays. Its just outdated laziness to say stadiums have no economic impact. Less reliance on cars and more of a wider benefit to the community the better. Theres a shitload of public money going to be spent regardless.

[WoodDraw]

I guess I don't believe surface parking and urban stadiums go hand and hand.

I'll vocally oppose any urban stadiums that rely on surface lots.

Surface lots are going to happen unless Royals also buy up Paseo West and North Crossroads. Might as well get some efficiencies out of all the infra investments made for Royals in EV

It's just induced demand at this point. It's the reason I'm against the crossroads.

If they need that parking, let them stay where they happen to be surrounded by parking.

If they come to the urban area, structure it so that it won't be surrounded by parking lots.

[beautyfromashes]

Paseo West will be decimated by parking lots if Royals move to East Village.

Honest question: What in Paseo West isn’t already decimated? What is there really to save. It’s already parking lots or homeless shelters or mason block, windowless one-story warehouses. I’d think that area would be ripe for development with an EV stadium.

I still don’t understand why there’s no talk about North Loop along with highway removal. Just enough room to build the stadium and have it surrounded by buildings, so no parking lots. It’s on the streetcar line with a stop already and would connect River Market to DT. I see absolutely no downside.

[normalthings]

Paseo West will be decimated by parking lots if Royals move to East Village.

Honest question: What in Paseo West isn’t already decimated? What is there really to save. It’s already parking lots or homeless shelters or mason block, windowless one-story warehouses. I’d think that area would be ripe for development with an EV stadium.

I still don’t understand why there’s no talk about North Loop along with highway removal. Just enough room to build the stadium and have it surrounded by buildings, so no parking lots. It’s on the streetcar line with a stop already and would connect River Market to DT. I see absolutely no downside.

There is very minimal historical or urban fabric left (part of my original argument). This area is gonna see parking lots spring up. Might as well building a stadium there too and its not like there can't also be some stadium adjacent development there.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I wish they could put the Chiefs in EV, and then just use Paseo West for parking.