New Chiefs Stadium

[KCPowercat]

2 conversations are happening here: One if cold vs warm weather climate super bowls. The other is if KC is capable of hosting a Super Bow.

I agree that cold-weather Super Bowls may be less exciting for visitors then warm weather. However, as Alkali points out, NFL seems open to hosting them every few years. If that is the case, there is no reason to let IND be the only one bidding.

oh yeah NFL is into it, I just personally think it's a bad idea and a high probability of visitors with a bad impression especially when the chance of cold weather is high. We're overall a great city but pretty boring for a super bowl attendee. No shame in that.

[AlkaliAxel]

2 conversations are happening here: One if cold vs warm weather climate super bowls. The other is if KC is capable of hosting a Super Bow.

I agree that cold-weather Super Bowls may be less exciting for visitors then warm weather. However, as Alkali points out, NFL seems open to hosting them every few years. If that is the case, there is no reason to let IND be the only one bidding.

oh yeah NFL is into it, I just personally think it's a bad idea and a high probability of visitors with a bad impression especially when the chance of cold weather is high. We're overall a great city but pretty boring for a super bowl attendee. No shame in that.

I guess a.) what is cold weather considered to you?
And then b.) what is so exciting about Phoenix or Minneapolis (or Indy LOL) that you can’t do here? I just went to Phoenix and it was so boring it felt like south Overland Park.

[KCPowercat]

Yeah those three suck for super bowls too, that's been stated many times. two/three/four wrongs don't make a right. PHX at least has the warmth but also a boring city overall.

[WoodDraw]

I think it's just better to admit KC isn't a winter city.

If the NFL wants to start having cold weather super bowls, let's do it. But not going to build a dome.

I have no idea where people think this money will come from. In this thread people are saying we're going to spend billions on stadiums. This won't happen. Not even a little chance.

Again, the chiefs are happy. I think they just want the tax renewed.

[AlkaliAxel]

I think it's just better to admit KC isn't a winter city.

If the NFL wants to start having cold weather super bowls, let's do it. But not going to build a dome.

I have no idea where people think this money will come from. In this thread people are saying we're going to spend billions on stadiums. This won't happen. Not even a little chance.

Again, the chiefs are happy. I think they just want the tax renewed.

KC winter is cold but *not* freezing. There’s a stark difference. Everything north of us is freezing. There’s little snow because we live adjacent to the dry Great Plains.

I think the argument is that if the Royals are gonna get $600 mil or whatever, then the Chiefs will claim they should get that too.

[Rusty Irish]

I think there is a theme with lots of new stadiums

1) Urban/Downtown locations
2) Anchored by or close to entertainment destinations

Stsying at Arrowhead goes against that. The days of the suburban stadium on the cheapest land possible surrounded by nothing but surface parking lots and expressways are dying.

Personally I'd love to see an urban stadium shared with Sporting KC to give the tax payers more bang for their buck close to the street car somewhere. Something that isn't just used 10/11 times per year and is more attractive to neutral events. However if its a suburban stadium they want moving across the state line to Village West makes far more sense. Can maintain the tailgating experience and if they want their own Ballpark Village type experience then there is far more attractions wise out there to sustain the development year round. Nascar, soccer stadium, baseball stadium, huge mixed use development. Only way staying at Arrowhead makes sense is if there is only the money for a bare bones renovation.

[Cratedigger]

From what (little) has been said, it seems the Hunts want to stay at Arrowhead but develop more of an experience immediately around the stadium. Something like the Texas Live area around the Rangers/Cowboys stadiums.

I'd be ok with a stadium out at Legends. A football stadium makes sense out there in a way it wouldn't downtown.

But I actively would NOT want a stadium shared between the Chiefs and Sporting. Do you remember Wizards games in Arrowhead? They would average 10/15 thousand people and it would just be dead in that huge stadium. Was depressing even though they had solid teams.

[dukuboy1]

If they Royals move downtown. Then the Chiefs have the entire TSC. That’s a massive blank canvas so to speak. They have their current training facilities & office which they could move closer. The land where the K is now & a host of undeveloped grassy areas that fall under the acreage of the TSC. They could do a lot there to add news things, improve traffic flow, add a mass transit area, etc. they could reall shape not only TSC but surrounding area especially to the East & North along Blueridge & by I70

[Rusty Irish]

In years gone I'd have objected to NFL/MLS joint venues but now they are being designed in a way which allows them to be modified to accommodate each team. They've done this in Atlanta and I think it was the plan for the proposed St Louis riverfront stadium.

[GRID]

If they Royals move downtown. Then the Chiefs have the entire TSC. That’s a massive blank canvas so to speak. They have their current training facilities & office which they could move closer. The land where the K is now & a host of undeveloped grassy areas that fall under the acreage of the TSC. They could do a lot there to add news things, improve traffic flow, add a mass transit area, etc. they could reall shape not only TSC but surrounding area especially to the East & North along Blueridge & by I70

Exactly. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever to move the Chiefs.

That Village West area is going to look like total shit in 20 years. Mark my words.

[alejandro46]

If they Royals move downtown. Then the Chiefs have the entire TSC. That’s a massive blank canvas so to speak. They have their current training facilities & office which they could move closer. The land where the K is now & a host of undeveloped grassy areas that fall under the acreage of the TSC. They could do a lot there to add news things, improve traffic flow, add a mass transit area, etc. they could reall shape not only TSC but surrounding area especially to the East & North along Blueridge & by I70

Exactly. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever to move the Chiefs.

That Village West area is going to look like total shit in 20 years. Mark my words.

But but but Margaritaville will solve everything. I mean, if you look at the area around Arrowhead currently, it's not like they are exactly in a thriving community. Keep Arrowhead in TSC, move Royals dt. Develop where Kauffman used to be as a bar/entertainment "tailgating hub" type of space available all year around. Add parks and apartment development around the area anchored by a bus and rail hub that would have a center-runing streecar down Linwood/31st.

-$600M in streetcar (built in 2 phases with BRT in the interim). Add TDD on east side and include TSC ask Chiefs to pitch in. (yes, this may just be my pipe dream and far out in left field (more sports references), but I really think this would he huge for the team and city to help revitalize the East side as well as set us up better for World Cup type events).
- 2010 renovations to Arrowhead were $375M
-New Kauffman Stadium needs to be majority private funding. I think $900M number has been floated.

Some interesting reading I came across from a 2014 Buffalo News article regarding Arrowhead renovations, as Buffalo is probably going to build a new stadium focusing on what makes Arrowhead special, why people like it. We spent more then and prolonged the life, they spend $130M then and now the team and league are pushing for a new stadium completely.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/ho ... abea4.html

[AlkaliAxel]

Personally I'd love to see an urban stadium shared with Sporting KC to give the tax payers more bang for their buck close to the street car somewhere. Something that isn't just used 10/11 times per year and is more attractive to neutral events. However if its a suburban stadium they want moving across the state line to Village West makes far more sense. Can maintain the tailgating experience and if they want their own Ballpark Village type experience then there is far more attractions wise out there to sustain the development year round. Nascar, soccer stadium, baseball stadium, huge mixed use development. Only way staying at Arrowhead makes sense is if there is only the money for a bare bones renovation.

Both of your guys logic is completely correct that the Chiefs make more sense in the Kansas burbs which are more activated than Missouri’s, and the Royals in downtown KCMO. You’re fully correct.

The problem is you have people out there who don’t care about what’s logical, they just have an irrational hatred of Kansas and want to hoard everything they can away from KS.

[GRID]

I just can't stand anything about most of KCK. I think you have simply been in the KC area too long if you are even remotely attracted to the village west area. Most of the KC suburbs are terrible on both sides of the state line, but western KCK is tacky, it's half rural, it's isolated, it's culturally just so far from my thing that I find it repulsive. There is little worse than exurban midwestern sprawl and the people that love those areas.

I would rather have a stadium surrounded by distribution warehouses and parking lots lol.

Move the Royals downtown and let the Chiefs do what they want with the TSC. It's a football stadium. It doesn't need to be next to anything honestly. You can force a bunch of retail next to a stadium, but there really is no point.

Baseball is different and if at all possible, move the stadium downtown, but that seems like a very long uphill battle.

[AlkaliAxel]

Most of the KC suburbs are terrible on both sides of the state line

Wtf are you even talking about

[GRID]

Most of the KC suburbs are terrible on both sides of the state line

Wtf are you even talking about

As much as people in KC would like to think otherwise, the suburbs of KC are not that impressive. They are average to below average. Not bad, not great, just suburbs. And compared to many suburbs, they are pretty lacking honestly especially when it comes to having high quality transit, recreation etc.

KC's suburbs are mostly just retail lined arterial streets and housing. Overland Park is better because of all the office parks, but it still has a 1980's vibe to it.

I guess it all depends on what you want out of suburbs. I think KC's suburbs are fine for most people that they cater to (midwestern transplants), but I have gotten used to the suburbs around DC and other cities which just have so much more going on and many of them have more urban and vibrant "downtowns" than even downtown KC is. For example, Bethesda, Roslyn, Alexandria, Silver Spring etc have more active downtown districts on any given day than KC's downtown, let alone the downtowns in KC's suburbs.

There are some good things happening in KC's suburbs. I think Lee's Summit probably offers the best complete package for a suburb with their downtown and recreation options. NKC is starting to get things going, but they lack population. The jury is still out on Downtown Overland Park, but it's getting better. Their downtown is okay, but just throwing up apartment buildings on Metcalf is not really the answer.

In general, suburban KC is just nothing special that can't be found in any other metro area in the midwest and it doesn't really have suburbs like you have on the coasts or in metros like Denver and MSP where regional transit is a thing.

Many of KC's suburbs are just a mess like KCK, Independence, Olathe, Cass County, Grandview etc. It's either new super tacky/cheap sprawl or decaying 1970's-1990's sprawl. Even Liberty has a nice little downtown, but then at the same time they have 8 lane retail lined traffic sewers. Leawood may as well be one giant gated subdivision. Most of KC's burbs are the opposite of diverse. Just no culture or charm what so ever. Very few areas are walkable and almost none have decent transit to other parts of the metro.

The best suburb in KC is probably Brookside and it's technically not a suburb.

[GRID]

Again, I'm not hating on KC's suburbs. But KC people need to realize that they are not special. At all.

KC is special between the River Market and the Plaza. Throw in swope park due to the zoo and starlight. The rest of the metro is just average American sprawl in various states of growth and decay that everybody in the entire country has in their own backyard.

So concentrate on that river market to plaza area. That's why it's so important to see Midtown KC come to life. I still can not for the life of me understand why the city shot down that development at Main and Armour.

[AlkaliAxel]

Delusional

[GRID]

Delusional

Have you traveled the country? Been to like all the top 100 metro areas? Most of them multiple times? I have. If you think metro KC outside of the core of KCMO is anything special, you really need to get out more.

[AlkaliAxel]

I'm sorry but what the hell are you talking about? This is just common sense

Johnson County is ranked:
#2 best county to live in America
#8 best county for families
#18 best county for public schools
#38 best counties for young professionals

Overland Park is ranked:
#1 in best places to buy a house
#4 in best cities to live in America
#4 in best cities it raise a family
#7 in best public schools in America
#13 in best cities to retire

Leawood is ranked
#1 in best small cities to live in America

Olathe
#11 best city to live in the US

This isn't just a one-off town or city that's a nice suburb...basically the entirety of the Kansas suburbs are ranked as some of the top tier in the nation. There is absolutely no argument against that unless you just hate Kansas.

[GRID]

I knew that was coming.

OP and JOCO in general looks good on paper. It mostly comes down to how political lines define the area when crunching numbers.

There is nothing unique or better about JoCo than any other mostly white, mostly affluent suburban area in the country except how isolated and contained it is making it an easy stat.

You can go to suburban Indy or Columbus or Cincy or St Louis etc etc etc and find the exact same thing as JoCo, but because those areas may be more intertwined with other areas, they may not rank as high.

Also JoCo is the entire state of KS and it also is what it is at the expense of KCMO and KCK more than just about any other suburban area in the country outside of Detroit. When you bring in all the hospitals, all the corporations, even try to rebuild all the same attractions that that used to be in the core city while at the same time not allowing most blacks or any diversity in for decades, you are going to look better on paper now that those things are inside your county or city limits instead of being inside the metropolitan area.

I'm not going to explain any further. You will eventually learn this.