New Chiefs Stadium

[GRID]

Shoot me down for being a broken record, but I don't get why people are so happy to settle for the stadium staying where it is. Its a municipal asset, it shouldn't be out on an island like it is IMO.
A healthy modern city is based on a clustering of
complimenting uses. This is basically a carbon copy of 1970s car-centric suburban thinking.

Because gigantic NFL stadiums that require 25,000 parking spaces that are used 20 times a year are not something you want in an urban area. It would do far more damage than good. The location of Arrowhead is absolutely perfect for such a venue. Even MLB stadiums are not great for urban areas, but if done right it could improve a city and I think that's the case in KC because downtown KC has large swaths of under-developed land.

It makes no sense to move Arrowhead away from the sports complex. Especially if it's moved to another similar location that will need all new parking lots, access roads, interstate access improvements etc. Clean up the area where it's at now. Build transit into Jackson County that would also serve the stadium.

[DColeKC]

Shoot me down for being a broken record, but I don't get why people are so happy to settle for the stadium staying where it is. Its a municipal asset, it shouldn't be out on an island like it is IMO.
A healthy modern city is based on a clustering of
complimenting uses. This is basically a carbon copy of 1970s car-centric suburban thinking.

I agree with you mostly but I think football stadiums are a rare exception. Also, the revenue model currently of a NFL team needs parking revenue in the smaller markets. It's just a massively different situation than baseball.

[shinatoo]

Same reason you don't want NASCAR in the urban core. To much dead space required for the 350 days a year it's not in use.

The only place I would put it in the urban core is Harlem.

Unless it's domed and part of a convention center. Then the story changes.

[beautyfromashes]

Same reason you don't want NASCAR in the urban core. To much dead space required for the 350 days a year it's not in use.

The only place I would put it in the urban core is Harlem.

Unless it's domed and part of a convention center. Then the story changes.

Most European stadiums are directly surrounded by neighborhoods, some bigger cities here in America too. The reason it doesn't happen in places like KC is the dependence on car transportation. TSC doesn't provide some magical location for Arrowhead, old or new. There's no real reason for it to be where it is. Put it in the Northland to spur a light rail line to the airport. Put it in the West Bottoms to get Kansas to pay part of the tab and get it closer to the core. We should think more pragmatically about using the stadium to best benefit the city. Besides some guys on a message board who grew up in Raytown or Blue Springs who want to keep their childhood memories, TSC means nothing.

[normalthings]

West Bottoms I can see. Northland not really. The last KCI study I can find suggested 3,000 daily riders from building to 29&N.Oak. 3500 going all the way to KCI (by 2020).

[Cratedigger]

I wonder why he is moving so soon.

The news published his old address leading to some wackos to hang out nearby

[aknowledgeableperson]

Shoot me down for being a broken record, but I don't get why people are so happy to settle for the stadium staying where it is. Its a municipal asset, it shouldn't be out on an island like it is IMO.
A healthy modern city is based on a clustering of
complimenting uses. This is basically a carbon copy of 1970s car-centric suburban thinking.

For one it is not a municipal asset, it is a county asset. Built by Jackson County, using county sales tax to build and maintain it. Oh, the city does contribute a little bit each year but not enough to make it a municipal asset. Of course can't forget it was built on surplus City owned land used to house prisoners among other things. Still city contributions do not reach the level of county contributions.

[KCPowercat]

It's a dead building 95% of the year.

[Rusty Irish]

Shoot me down for being a broken record, but I don't get why people are so happy to settle for the stadium staying where it is. Its a municipal asset, it shouldn't be out on an island like it is IMO.
A healthy modern city is based on a clustering of
complimenting uses. This is basically a carbon copy of 1970s car-centric suburban thinking.

Because gigantic NFL stadiums that require 25,000 parking spaces that are used 20 times a year are not something you want in an urban area. It would do far more damage than good. The location of Arrowhead is absolutely perfect for such a venue. Even MLB stadiums are not great for urban areas, but if done right it could improve a city and I think that's the case in KC because downtown KC has large swaths of under-developed land.

It makes no sense to move Arrowhead away from the sports complex. Especially if it's moved to another similar location that will need all new parking lots, access roads, interstate access improvements etc. Clean up the area where it's at now. Build transit into Jackson County that would also serve the stadium.

Do they actually require that amount of spaces though? People are just so conditioned to using their cars. Also, to be honest, I don't see anyone struggling to find a place to park regardless of where the stadium is, it might just not be on the team's property.

I don't think it should be in the middle of Power and Light but it shouldn't be out on a wasteland either IMO. The city doesn't get the full benefit of it when 700k spectators per year head straight in and out of Arrowhead each year - nevermind all the other people employed in and around Arrowhead on gamedays. Thats a big failing of the stadium developments of the 60s and 70s - cut off from their surrounding neighborhoods by expressways and surface lots. I heavily favor the West Bottoms as its close to the heart of the city without being smack dab in the middle and a waste of top tier real estate, but it could easily assist to revive a stagnant area thats still within a stones throw and turning it back into a sustainable mixed use district.

[beermestrength]

I wonder why he is moving so soon.

He never intended to stay in the ranch home long term. I think he waited until he knew this is where he will be for a long time, likely even after his playing career is over to go big on his "forever" home.

I also heard too many people (fans) were showing up to his house and it was getting a little unsettling to him and his family so they needed to be in a gated community. The price of fame unfortunately.

[beautyfromashes]

It's a dead building 95% of the year.

Location probably has something to do with that.

[normalthings]

It's a dead building 95% of the year.

Location probably has something to do with that.

Rams was just as dead

[alejandro46]

For KC a lot of football staying at TSC I think is about continuing to utilize existing assets where possible and where the $#'s add up. Trying to pour $2bln into a new stadium, downtown or whereever in a smaller market like KC just would be difficult, financially quesionable for all involved, and disruptive of the history of Arrowhead.

Baseball requires a smaller footprint, useful more days of the year, and has a history in KC downtown, as well as ownership who thinks the numbers may add up DT (obviously nothing decided yet).

[aknowledgeableperson]

"has a history in KC downtown,"

22nd and Brooklyn downtown???????????????????????????????????????????????/

[GRID]

Same reason you don't want NASCAR in the urban core. To much dead space required for the 350 days a year it's not in use.

The only place I would put it in the urban core is Harlem.

Unless it's domed and part of a convention center. Then the story changes.

Most European stadiums are directly surrounded by neighborhoods, some bigger cities here in America too. The reason it doesn't happen in places like KC is the dependence on car transportation. TSC doesn't provide some magical location for Arrowhead, old or new. There's no real reason for it to be where it is. Put it in the Northland to spur a light rail line to the airport. Put it in the West Bottoms to get Kansas to pay part of the tab and get it closer to the core. We should think more pragmatically about using the stadium to best benefit the city. Besides some guys on a message board who grew up in Raytown or Blue Springs who want to keep their childhood memories, TSC means nothing.

I don't know if you are referring to me, but I did not grow up in Blue Springs or Raytown. I grew up in KCMO. South Plaza, Midtown and East KC. I only mention the Jackson County suburbs because we did move there and my kids started school there and people seem to be clueless about metro KC east of the stadiums and you just did it again. Saying to put the stadium by KCI for transit reasons. If you know anything about transit, you would know that the I-70 corridor is a FAR better option for transit than the I-29 corridor. The Jackson County suburbs have a lot of people and most commute. KCI ridership on rail would be so low it would be one of the most wasteful LRT routes in the country if built. You might get some commuters, but you will get almost no ridership all the way to KCI. On the other hand, you would get pretty decent ridership on a LRT line from downtown to Blue Springs or Lee's Summit.

I don't think there are any big nfl stadiums that are surrounded by neighborhoods (even if they are in urban areas) and most urban MLB stadiums are not either, not like what you are talking about with European soccer stadiums. Fenway and Wrigley are about as close as it gets to that. Nationals Park is probably becoming the most embedded into the neighborhood as you will see for a modern stadium and it still has two large parking garages next to it. KC's stadiums will always have 80-90% of the fans drive and park near the stadium even if downtown. Why would you move the NFL stadium anywhere near downtown? It will be hard enough to build a MLB park down there without seeing mass destruction (or land banking) for parking lots.

I have zero care or memories for Blue Springs and the rest of the MO suburbs, but I do know the size of the area and how many people live there and how many are fans of the teams. It's a lot. And there is money. Half the shoppers that support JoCo retail are from Jackson County. We used to drive clear to JoCo all the time. And I just don't think it makes sense to vacate the TSC when all the infrastructure for an NFL stadium is there. The parking lots, the access roads, the interstate access and it is relatively close to the city. The stadium area could easily support a development like Village West or something. Again, most people in the Jackson County suburbs drive clear to places in KS because retail is limited in that area mainly because there has not been any incentive to build there like you have in KS with STAR bonds etc. But a destination place would probably do great. Make the area a destination. Open new hotels and redo the old ones. If KCK can do it in on the edge of county of 160,000 truly in the middle of nowhere, you can do it in the "center" of a county of 720,000 people. It just takes people that want to make it happen.

It makes so much more sense to build LRT to the stadium and further into Jackson County. Then you are a ten minute train ride into the city (and Royals stadium) or out to the NFL stadium. That way the people that want to go downtown before and after the game can easily go, but the other 95% who will go straight to their cars regardless of where the stadium is won't have to find a place to park their cars downtown ruining downtown for people that actually want to enjoy it. Then the LRT can be used by Jackson County people to get to the downtown baseball stadium, arena, plaza, river market, crown center etc and again can leave the cars outside of the city. Even if the first phase of LRT is only built to the TSC, a lot of Royals fans could park there take the train to a downtown stadium.

So while moving the NFL stadium downtown is a terrible idea, moving the stadium to some far flung location in KS is just as bad as transit will NEVER happen to it and fans will interact even less with the center city than they do now. The TSC is only 6 miles from the center city.

[AlkaliAxel]

The problem is that if you make the argument that it shouldn’t be downtown because of xyz, the response is still gonna be that if you’re gonna have to keep it in a suburb, then just go to a better suburb. Most people just hate the town and neighborhoods surround TSC.

Imagine putting Jerry’s World in one of worst burbs in Dallas. Lol.

And if it just has to be in Missouri, then atleast go to the Northland. Whoever made that point earlier, I agree.

[GRID]

It's not a suburb. It's basically an industrial part of KCMO. It's a location between the city and the suburbs. There is plenty of room there to build it up and make something nice out of it. It would cost probably the same as it would to do the same thing in a JoCo for WyCo field 20-25 miles from downtown.

That last part is very important. Moving the stadium three times further from the city than it is now would be so counterproductive for downtown. There is a reason downtown KC lacks hotels. Do you freaking honestly think moving things like the stadium even further away from the city is going to help that situation?

KCMO, Jackson County and Missouri just need to get off their asses and put together similar STAR bond type financing plans etc and just clean up the area. Who cares about the ranch houses east of Blue Ridge. Ever been to National Harbor in suburban Maryland in DC? Same exact deal. It's next to an area like Raytown. But it doesn't matter because it's a destination.

[AlkaliAxel]

It's not a suburb. It's basically an industrial part of KCMO. It's a location between the city and the suburbs. There is plenty of room there to build it up and make something nice out of it. It would cost probably the same as it would to do the same thing in a JoCo for WyCo field 20-25 miles from downtown.

That last part is very important. Moving the stadium three times further from the city than it is now would be so counterproductive for downtown. There is a reason downtown KC lacks hotels. Do you freaking honestly think moving things like the stadium even further away from the city is going to help that situation?

KCMO, Jackson County and Missouri just need to get off their asses and put together similar STAR bond type financing plans etc and just clean up the area. Who cares about the ranch houses east of Blue Ridge. Ever been to National Harbor in suburban Maryland in DC? Same exact deal. It's next to an area like Raytown. But it doesn't matter because it's a destination.

No I agree. The main reason I haven’t cut the cord completely on TSC is because it’s the only viable transit site. That’s something I want badly for the Chiefs. That’s why I’d go to North of the river where we could find a site and still get transit to downtown. And the Northland might actually form correctly as it grows.

[GRID]

There is no place to put it in the Northland except close to KCI which is basically another industrial area only it would be much further from downtown and much further from the populated parts of the metro so additional retail development around it would not be very viable.

And it will never have transit, not for at least 30-40 years. The population density from Downtown to KCI will never support LRT.

I just don't see the point of moving it near a bunch of warehouses near KCI or a bunch of office parks in JoCo. It will still require 25,000 parking spaces.

Just leave it where it's at and clean up the area where it's at now and get a starter LRT line going from Union Station to the stadium area that hopefully splits off from there into two lines and goes to Blue Springs and Lee's Summit.

I'm telling you. A LRT system from Union Station to the TSC that also goes further into Jackson County via US-40 and Rock Island corridors would pass a vote in Jackson County. Maybe also a line splitting off down Bruce Watkins or Troost to Grandview.

[AlkaliAxel]

There is no place to put it in the Northland except close to KCI which is basically another industrial area only it would be much further from downtown and much further from the populated parts of the metro so additional retail development around it would not be very viable.

And it will never have transit, not for at least 30-40 years. The population density from Downtown to KCI will never support LRT.

I just don't see the point of moving it near a bunch of warehouses near KCI or a bunch of office parks in JoCo. It will still require 25,000 parking spaces.

Just leave it where it's at and clean up the area where it's at now and get a starter LRT line going from Union Station to the stadium area that hopefully splits off from there into two lines and goes to Blue Springs and Lee's Summit.

I'm telling you. A LRT system from Union Station to the TSC that also goes further into Jackson County via US-40 and Rock Island corridors would pass a vote in Jackson County. Maybe also a line splitting off down Bruce Watkins or Troost to Grandview.

Not to get off topic here but this is why I thought we should've rebuilt the new airport close to downtown. I really never saw the point in rebuilding that far away.