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Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:48 am
by Sirius_Blue
dukuboy1 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:44 am Why don't they look to pursue projects that will invoke the change they desire instead of going after other's projects?
HEAR HEAR!

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 9:52 am
by chaglang
TheLastGentleman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:52 am I’m shocked a forum that’s ostensibly dedicated to urban KC could produce some of the anti-urban crap I’m reading on here
Noticing a lot of new posters in these discussions.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:19 am
by Anthony_Hugo98
chaglang wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:52 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:52 am I’m shocked a forum that’s ostensibly dedicated to urban KC could produce some of the anti-urban crap I’m reading on here
Noticing a lot of new posters in these discussions.
Slightly suspicious

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 11:58 am
by Karambit25
Sirius_Blue wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:54 am I don't think this attitude is helpful either. They're concerned with housing vulnerable people in KC, and that's admirable. It's just their methods and rhetoric that are tiresome and questionable.
Mine's not an attitude, it's an opinion.
These worthless shitheads have never housed or fed a single person.
"Housing vulnerable people" is a worthy cause.
But these dirty dyed haired loudmouths have never done it once.
They have no answers, they offer no assistance.
"Concern" and constant opposition to development doesn't keep rain off someone's head.
This is the same "concern" the ingrained losers @ the School District use in shooting down development. None of them know what they are doing.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 12:02 pm
by AlkaliAxel
Sirius_Blue wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:54 am
trexel94 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:48 pm
Karambit25 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:30 pm I hate these blue haired, unwashed commie bastards.
Good for nothing but wasting space.
Is that too harsh?
These dumb assholes can live in cardboard boxes for all I care. I'm not affected by rents.
I don't think this attitude is helpful either. They're concerned with housing vulnerable people in KC, and that's admirable. It's just their methods and rhetoric that are tiresome and questionable.
It seems to me they’re alot more concerned about just punishing the developers then they are about housing. Because if they really cared about housing, they’d try to come to deals with these projects instead of just saying “we’re gonna kill them all!!”

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 12:26 pm
by daGOAT
I implore no one resort to name calling when debating with a member of their organization. It will only dilute your message

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 12:27 pm
by Anthony_Hugo98
daGOAT wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:26 pm I implore no one resort to name calling when debating with a member of their organization. It will only dilute your message
Bingo, gotta take the high road

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 1:00 pm
by chaglang
Karambit25 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 11:58 am
Sirius_Blue wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:54 am I don't think this attitude is helpful either. They're concerned with housing vulnerable people in KC, and that's admirable. It's just their methods and rhetoric that are tiresome and questionable.
Mine's not an attitude, it's an opinion.
These worthless shitheads have never housed or fed a single person.
"Housing vulnerable people" is a worthy cause.
But these dirty dyed haired loudmouths have never done it once.
They have no answers, they offer no assistance.
"Concern" and constant opposition to development doesn't keep rain off someone's head.
This is the same "concern" the ingrained losers @ the School District use in shooting down development. None of them know what they are doing.
I get that you're upset but none of this actually furthers the discussion here.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:18 pm
by SilentSpades24
Is it safe to say the answer to this question is a definite yes? They had no reason to shoot this down.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 7:36 pm
by swid
As KC Tenants, Historic KC, and, uh…going to any neighborhood association meeting ever, just showing up and being loud is usually enough to get what you want.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:08 pm
by Pastense
Has anyone watched the KCMO Housing Trust Fund board meetings. I meant to watch yesterday but had a conflict.
Curious if a KC Tenant rep was elected Chair?

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:45 pm
by kenrbnj
Profoundly interesting.

I went to (and recommend you look at) the KC Tenants website. https://kctenants.org/about

They're a garden variety activist group. ..Their charter is poorly articulated. The website has far greater emphasis on fundraising than stating a clear objective, aside from "housing equality".

It seems KC Tenants had been born as an Tenant support group. Mistreatment by landlords, slumlords, etc. Somehow it evolved into an anti-development and anti-gentrification apparatus. Add in a leftist/populist majority in city hall? The KC Tenants group has gain influence.

They state platitudes such as "housing equality". What exactly is "housing equality"? They do not delineate a definition.

I might make an educated guess that KC Tenants wants low-priced or subsidized housing for everyone. ..And they have a leftist agenda.

Too bad the voters elected a left leaning city council. Until they're gone, the future of development in KC will face headwinds.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:28 pm
by beautyfromashes
kenrbnj wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:45 pm I might make an educated guess that KC Tenants wants low-priced or subsidized housing for everyone.
They could care less. It's the beginning stage of a boondoggle.

1. Build a group based on their anger and perceived offense.
2. Develop a voting block
3. Shake down politicians for more power under the guise of getting them elected due to group backing.
4. "Raise funds" based on political sway.
5. Get group leadership elected to political positions.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:06 pm
by AlkaliAxel
I honestly believe they're the only thing standing in the way between rapid growth & stagnancy at this point. We're so close to liftoff and they're trying everything they can to hold it down.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:04 pm
by grovester
Don't you think it's possible that they aren't a random group that has gained influence, but one that was either created or co-opted by a distinct political force specifically to stop progress and keep the city ineffective and controllable?

The history of these kind of movements are pretty well known. See Occupy Wallstreet ot Justice Democrats.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:16 pm
by SilentSpades24
grovester wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:04 pm Don't you think it's possible that they aren't a random group that has gained influence, but one that was either created or co-opted by a distinct political force specifically to stop progress and keep the city ineffective and controllable?

The history of these kind of movements are pretty well known. See Occupy Wallstreet ot Justice Democrats.
It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I don't know if that's the case. I think they're taking advantage of the obsession over equity and "wokeness" and weaponizing it. Frankly, I think that they weren't prepared to be where they are and have no game plan besides killing development.

But sadly, we put a bunch of left-wingers into office who will kowtow to them and let them sway votes and perceptions. It's pitiful.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:03 am
by CrossroadsUrbanApts
To me it is more about zero sum thinking and a perception of historic powerlessness. There are real issues with slumlords and poor housing conditions in parts of the city that created fertile ground for a group concerned with the rights and welfare of lower-income tenants. I have no issue there. A tenant's bill of rights seems fine as far as those things go.

But the real attention and influence comes from sexier issues like fighting luxury development (and market capitalism more broadly). I take the group at its word that it doesn't believe that market-based solutions help their core constituents. What I don't understand is that they seem to believe that market-rate development somehow is at odds with those interests. That's the zero sum thinking. That if there was less market-rate housing somehow the fixed pool of money and political attention would instead be re-oriented to providing for low-income groups.

New market-rate housing can't alone solve the issue of unaffordable housing for low-income groups but as we know, it actually helps on the margin, not hurts. Its not the job of KC Tenants to advocate for market-rate housing. But the mayor and council have to tune out their fallacies and zero-sum thinking and support both market-rate housing and real solutions for providing housing for lower-income groups, like public or otherwise subsidized housing.

KC Tenants has the whole "overthrow capitalism" thing going on as well and I'm pretty sure that's part of getting access to certain fundraising sources (foundations and particular interest groups). But I wouldn't call that nefarious just seriously misguided and unproductive.

Lastly, there is no way KC Tenants is the only thing standing in the way of rapid growth. How about the fact that some council members hate Kathryn Shields' guts and won't vote for anything she is remotely associated with? That kind of middle school behavior isn't helping.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:48 pm
by daGOAT
CrossroadsUrbanApts wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:03 am To me it is more about zero sum thinking and a perception of historic powerlessness. There are real issues with slumlords and poor housing conditions in parts of the city that created fertile ground for a group concerned with the rights and welfare of lower-income tenants. I have no issue there. A tenant's bill of rights seems fine as far as those things go.

But the real attention and influence comes from sexier issues like fighting luxury development (and market capitalism more broadly). I take the group at its word that it doesn't believe that market-based solutions help their core constituents. What I don't understand is that they seem to believe that market-rate development somehow is at odds with those interests. That's the zero sum thinking. That if there was less market-rate housing somehow the fixed pool of money and political attention would instead be re-oriented to providing for low-income groups.

New market-rate housing can't alone solve the issue of unaffordable housing for low-income groups but as we know, it actually helps on the margin, not hurts. Its not the job of KC Tenants to advocate for market-rate housing. But the mayor and council have to tune out their fallacies and zero-sum thinking and support both market-rate housing and real solutions for providing housing for lower-income groups, like public or otherwise subsidized housing.

KC Tenants has the whole "overthrow capitalism" thing going on as well and I'm pretty sure that's part of getting access to certain fundraising sources (foundations and particular interest groups). But I wouldn't call that nefarious just seriously misguided and unproductive.

Lastly, there is no way KC Tenants is the only thing standing in the way of rapid growth. How about the fact that some council members hate Kathryn Shields' guts and won't vote for anything she is remotely associated with? That kind of middle school behavior isn't helping.
Agreed. I spoke with them on Twitter and they said they wouldn't fight project that don't request incentives. Idk if that is a statement they stand on but its a sign they can be reasoned with. Killing the MAC project might not happen if they didn't request the TIF from Linwood shopping center. Not sure why 3rd and Grand was shot down after years of work though.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:54 pm
by CrossroadsUrbanApts
I think you are right that trying to tap into the Linwood TIF is what un-did the MAC development. But at least MAC was trying to hit the affordable set aside goals, so if you want the affordable housing you have to pay the price. I'm surprised the affordable housing advocates didn't just take the win and use it to show that the affordable housing set aside "worked". Instead, the opposite lesson was communicated.

I think the 3rd and Grand was more about the council and their proxies infighting than anything about the merits of the actual proposal. Hopefully it comes back, and maybe leads to some needed changes in who gets appointed to the incentive boards. If the mayor wants to see development, he can't keep appointing anti-development voices to these important boards.

Re: Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:59 pm
by daGOAT
CrossroadsUrbanApts wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:54 pm I think you are right that trying to tap into the Linwood TIF is what un-did the MAC development. But at least MAC was trying to hit the affordable set aside goals, so if you want the affordable housing you have to pay the price. I'm surprised the affordable housing advocates didn't just take the win and use it to show that the affordable housing set aside "worked". Instead, the opposite lesson was communicated.

I think the 3rd and Grand was more about the council and their proxies infighting than anything about the merits of the actual proposal. Hopefully it comes back, and maybe leads to some needed changes in who gets appointed to the incentive boards. If the mayor wants to see development, he can't keep appointing anti-development voices to these important boards.
Well the Linwood TIF monies was appointed to affordable housing closer to Troost so presumably the funds will still create housing it just won't be as exciting. I do think MAC will comeback especially if leasing is strong at their Armour and Troost buildings, which had setbacks as well due to parking complaints.

But yeah, the Council is a mess. This election is very crucial to the cities future.