Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

[Pastense]

Where is the Chamber? Downtown Council? Midtown Council? Civic Council? Are they paying attention? KC Tenants has a great chance of putting two people on the city council in April. They'll kill the Downtown Stadium along with other good projects if given the opportunity.

[smh]

Did MidtownKCNow speak at the ATA meeting?

[dukuboy1]

I really hope these projects get built without incentives and the developers charge what they want for rent. Would love nothing more than for KC Tenants to become the reason why there is no affordable housing being developed when they get "outraged" of projects that ask for incentives that will have affordable elements. They are really cutting off their nose to despite their face.

I like that they are advocates for affordable housing, and holding land lords & developers responsible for making sure properties are kept up and living conditions good. But their entire approach to just sabotage new develops is just dumb and short sighted when it comes to the big picture.

[Cratedigger]

Did MidtownKCNow speak at the ATA meeting?

I was popping in and out of the Zoom but I don't think so.

Ultimately there just seems to be a lack of understanding regarding how tax incentives work. For developments like this which build on a parking lot the tax break is not taking $$$ away from the schools - it's actually adding revenue! And some that should/do understand (city council members, KCPS, reporters for KCUR/KC Beacon/etc) continue to misrepresent this.

Frustrating.

Based on KCT's civic engagement, I'd be shocked if their At-Large candidates are not elected in April

[Chris Stritzel]

On incentive reform, the big guys (Cordish, Mac, Lux, Milhaus, etc) should face higher scrutiny for incentive requests than the little guys. Little guys tend to be the more local development groups that want to make their home city better (like me). But if we're being held to the same standard as the big guys, who could steamroll over us, then why do we even try to compete? The playing field needs to be leveled and using incentives in that form would achieve that.

The big boys should be mandated to provide affordable housing when they seek an incentive, not the little guy. The big guys have revenue to back them up while the little guys likely do not (unless you're stacked with cash).

If we moved to a clear system like this, I fully expect the big guys would find a way to do their projects their way and the little guys can compete and offer products that might just be better than what the big guys offer. And the more apartments that get built, the better for the renter who is likely worried their rent will increase because demand is high and supply is low. Build more housing and rents will have to remain competitive for newer, better products, and smaller properties (with no amenities) will have to freeze or even reduce rent to maintain the occupancy numbers the landlord would like to see.

We can agree that KCTenants is being noble in their way to want to hold slumlords accountable and want residents to have the best quality of life for the price they pay. Their celebrating Mac's project cancellation is one reason why I can't take these guys seriously. They just shot themselves and their mission in the foot while denying additional revenue to the city from more residents and retail shops.

[Chris Stritzel]

Based on KCT's civic engagement, I'd be shocked if their At-Large candidates are not elected in April

Jenay Manley is the only At-Large candidate running this year (2nd At-Large). Jonathan Duncan is running for 6th In-District. I think it'll be Manley vs French in the general election. Hard to tell what'll happen to Duncan since that race is stacked.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

They just shot themselves and their mission in the foot while denying additional revenue to the city from more residents and retail shops.

Their mission has literally nothing to do with incremental improvements to affordability. They only care about taking capitalism out of the housing market. Anything they say that makes it seem like they're willing to work on something that doesn't go that far is just placating. They'll just move the goalposts once a developer delivers on whatever they say they're asking for.

This is why I don't understand why anyone in power actually listens to them. No one in Kansas City has the power to satiate that beast. The country would have to fundamentally change and then there'd have to be further decades of policy change and infrastructure built for them to be happy. What they want can't be done even if they got everyone in Kansas City on board, which they're never going to do.

At some point, someone in power is going to get to a point where they're unwilling to go as far as KC Tenants want them to go and then they'll meet their wrath. Might as well get it over with from the start and just not give them the oxygen.

[Jblanco]

Does this mean that the new streetcar extension was a waste?
If Mac and this TOD project can't win, is there literally anything else that can?

KCT is no more than a bunch of low IQ socialists with enough time on their hands to cancel development. They have no money, or real clout, you don't need money when you're an "activist" that is only committed to canceling. And the general public on the east side is easily swayed. The cowards that voted this down are idiots, bowing to loud mouth fools so they can retain their position in gov for a short time.

[langosta]

The rent required to build a lot of new construction projects without incentives exceeds what the market can afford.

None of the large no incentive proposals have moved forward so far

[beautyfromashes]

On incentive reform, the big guys (Cordish, Mac, Lux, Milhaus, etc) should face higher scrutiny for incentive requests than the little guys. Little guys tend to be the more local development groups that want to make their home city better (like me). But if we're being held to the same standard as the big guys, who could steamroll over us, then why do we even try to compete? The playing field needs to be leveled and using incentives in that form would achieve that.

No. Small businesses, and developers like yourself specifically, should have an agility and speed that larger businesses do not. This is how small businesses become large businesses. Work your relationships. Grind for cheaper costs on items that large players would just gloss over. Your locality should be the asset that helps you beat the large players. You know the market better. You see the change in demand and area more quickly. It might be hard in the short term, but small businesses that are run well will ALWAYS come out ahead.

[beautyfromashes]

The rent required to build a lot of new construction projects without incentives exceeds what the market can afford...at the profit return demanded.

None of the large no incentive proposals have moved forward so far

The problem is that as we see more demand and success, that profit required will also continue to grow. Unfortunately, this makes waiting on a project almost better...until, the market turns from speculation (where we've been for 20 years now) to full demand (where we should start to be soon). When this market starts to run downhill instead of trying to climb the hill, watch out! Developers will start racing to build to beat a bust or the saturation of the market. This movement from speculative market to full growth market is going to be crazy exciting!

[Highlander]

The rent required to build a lot of new construction projects without incentives exceeds what the market can afford.

Building truly affordable apartments along the streetcar line is probably not a desirable thing over the long term. The construction would be shoddy and without amenities. Better to build better, even if the rents are high, and let older projects that were once high end become affordable as supply increases. The supply and price issues are not going to be solved with cheap to rent new-build apartments; there are very few builders that would take that on without even greater subsidies than currently requested (if at all).

[TheBigChuckbowski]

If Mac and this TOD project can't win, is there literally anything else that can?

I mean...this incentive request should've been denied IMO. Mac straight up lied to the city about seeking incentives and they shouldn't be able to shop around to different agencies. The first incentive request should've been approved, I don't think this one should have, though.

[TheLastGentleman]

I wish a local minority and low income urban tenant’s rights org had as much power as everyone on here seems to think they have. Y’all have your Davids and Goliaths mixed up

[TheUrbanRoo]

Based on KCT's civic engagement, I'd be shocked if their At-Large candidates are not elected in April

I wouldn't bet on that. Highest voter turnout locally is from household's not tenants. The "activist" candidates also typically aren't well-funded.

I actually think the pro-development side is gonna gain in the elections. Wes Rogers is running unopposed and several others are in the drivers seat to win.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

If Mac and this TOD project can't win, is there literally anything else that can?

I mean...this incentive request should've been denied IMO. Mac straight up lied to the city about seeking incentives and they shouldn't be able to shop around to different agencies. The first incentive request should've been approved, I don't think this one should have, though.

The project changed from the October presentation to now due to neighborhood pushback. More parking was required and a lower unit count, likely lowering the monthly income of the development by $50,000 or more. That’s a fair bit on top of the increased construction costs due to more parking required. It made sense for them to shift gears a bit, but they did themselves no favors by messaging literally none of this to anyone.

[beautyfromashes]

Better to build better, even if the rents are high, and let older projects that were once high end become affordable as supply increases.

Supply will never increase. I don't see supply outpacing demand increases for decades, if ever. We can try to keep up with the increased demand coming, but I don't see how that is near possible. I think before that, you'll see mass affordable living moving to the poorer suburbs, a reverse flight, if you will.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I wish a local minority and low income urban tenant’s rights org had as much power as everyone on here seems to think they have. Y’all have your Davids and Goliaths mixed up

19 spoke in opposition to the incentives request and it was killed. That isn’t minuscule political power…even if it’s decentralized and grass roots.

[beautyfromashes]

The project changed from the October presentation to now due to neighborhood pushback. More parking was required and a lower unit count, likely lowering the monthly income of the development by $50,000 or more. That’s a fair bit on top of the increased construction costs due to more parking required. It made sense for them to shift gears a bit, but they did themselves no favors by messaging literally none of this to anyone.

It sure seems that MAC gets more of what they want each time the project is delayed/roadblocked. Less affordable, less parking required. It will be interesting to see what the next push for this project will look like. I don't see it disappearing for any reason.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

The project changed from the October presentation to now due to neighborhood pushback. More parking was required and a lower unit count, likely lowering the monthly income of the development by $50,000 or more. That’s a fair bit on top of the increased construction costs due to more parking required. It made sense for them to shift gears a bit, but they did themselves no favors by messaging literally none of this to anyone.

It sure seems that MAC gets more of what they want each time the project is delayed/roadblocked. Less affordable, less parking required. It will be interesting to see what the next push for this project will look like. I don't see it disappearing for any reason.

Nor do I. Parking requirements haven’t decreased at any point on this project though IIRC