KCRag Forum

Midtown just wasn't laid out with enough East-West through streets. I don't think we can close W 39th to cars.

Also, getting rid of the street parking on 39th is a mistake. I bet most people who are driving to 39th are not coming from a place where they could choose the streetcar as an alt way to get there. You have NE Joco residents, people from nearby...but not quite close enough to walk, and people from N. Plaza etc. If people can't park on 39th, they will probably just go to Westport or somewhere else to eat/drink.

Also with the giant new Emergency Room entrance on 39th, I don't see how emergency vehicles would get anyone to that entrance easily with a closed w 39TH (or with the streetcar in place at all, really).

Agreed with all the above that Westport Rd. seems to have a much wider ROW. It's KU I'm sure that made the requirement that the line terminate there. It's a big employer for sure so that make sense but what's the point of spending all this money for the streetcar to just be stuck in 39th st. traffic. But just closing 39 is not a great idea. Traffic will just divert to neighborhood streets.

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:34 am That’s interesting to hear Westport Rd hasn’t been seriously studied.

What would that look like? Main to 39th then onto Westport rd before turning on rainbow to KU Med?
Stops at:
- Broadway and Westport Rd
- Roanoke Parkway and Westport Rd
- 43rd and Rainbow
- KU Med at 39th and Rainbow

Is that too much track mileage in KS?

@Hugo what was your SW Blvd dream E/W route?

I endorse this too. Rainbow is the bus connection to KCK north and any further streetcar expansion south to Medcalf.

I've created a map of the E-W route I'd like to see. Dark blue spots = stop. Light blue = maybe stops.

Lets pick up service on Broadway along the Uptown district while we are at it. That area has a lot of potential but it needs a boost!

Midtownkid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:06 am I can't figure out how to get this uploaded to a place where it can be shared more easily, but I have a potential map at this link. Dark blue spots = stop. Light blue = maybe stops.

https://netorgft3285534-my.sharepoint.c ... g?e=dbinxQ

I’d like it down Broadway too. Really seems to make the most sense assuming the money is there

Midtownkid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:06 am I can't figure out how to get this uploaded to a place where it can be shared more easily, but I have a potential map at this link. Dark blue spots = stop. Light blue = maybe stops.

https://netorgft3285534-my.sharepoint.c ... g?e=dbinxQ

That is nice, especially if it continues down SW Blvd back to Main St. and completes the loop.

Ya'll are making good points for Westport Rd. I had voted for 39th in the initial route feedback. Was Westport Rd. one of the options at that time?

With KU MED getting into the apartment business with the new construction on Rainbow north of 39th continuing down the hill to SW Blvd would reinvigorate Rosedale. People staying at the hotels down there could also get up to the hospital and clinics.

It's already a nightmare enough for the residents to park. I'm anti-car for the most part but the fact that taking street parking off 39th St would make an already awful situation worse. Going to need something like resident parking passes for street parking if they choose to do this, it's already awful.

Go down SW BLVD to 31st or go down to Westport Road. This is easily the worst idea we've ran with in a while at least.

Jamestown is adding parking to the neighborhood. Other future developments will too....

Let alone the fact that rail transit = less cars

Love this. I agree with everything midtownkid is saying.

I also would run it down Broadway. Why would you not? That section of Broadway could really build up into a nice urban district with a streetcar route through there. Running it south of KU Med puts the route closer to a lot more population density of the areas around the Plaza. There is much less population density north of 39th along state line.

Is there a reason they didn't look at Armour/35th? It's wider, it has some really good density west of Troost and it would be a shorter, more direct connect to the VA hospital.

Thoughts on running WB streetcar down Westport Rd and EB on 39th back to Broadway? Would mean only one lane of tracks down each street instead of two.

GRID wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:27 am Love this. I agree with everything midtownkid is saying.

I also would run it down Broadway. Why would you not? That section of Broadway could really build up into a nice urban district with a streetcar route through there. Running it south of KU Med puts the route closer to a lot more population density of the areas around the Plaza. There is much less population density north of 39th along state line.

Is there a reason they didn't look at Armour/35th? It's wider, it has some really good density west of Troost and it would be a shorter, more direct connect to the VA hospital.

Lack of money

GRID wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:27 am Love this. I agree with everything midtownkid is saying.

I also would run it down Broadway. Why would you not? That section of Broadway could really build up into a nice urban district with a streetcar route through there. Running it south of KU Med puts the route closer to a lot more population density of the areas around the Plaza. There is much less population density north of 39th along state line.

Is there a reason they didn't look at Armour/35th? It's wider, it has some really good density west of Troost and it would be a shorter, more direct connect to the VA hospital.

Wow. A positive response one of my ideas posted on this message board?

In my over 20 years posting on here it might be a first! Thanks everyone

kcjak wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:40 am Thoughts on running WB streetcar down Westport Rd and EB on 39th back to Broadway? Would mean only one lane of tracks down each street instead of two.

So you would subject the mixed traffic streetcar to two busy streets instead of just one? Bidirectional isn't really the problem, it's the amount of on-street parking on W. 39th. Reduce it, and you reduce the impact to streetcar.

And to those who say -- and we hear this a lot outside of this project -- that OMG people aren't just coming from the neighborhood! Well, what if I told you that we heard the same thing downtown and what ended up happening is downtowners circulate more often and farther distances because of streetcar? In essence you are minimizing or completely supplanting any imagined loss of regional access with increase local access.

Eliminating on-street parking and have streetlight priority for the Streetcar could help make 39th work better where dedicated lanes aren't possible.

35th/Armor is heavily residential and has limited opportunity to further develop than is already there vs Linwood which has multiple older mid-rises and a lot of vacant lots to develop.

I'd get rid of parking on 39th and put the streetcar in a grass median like in Europe.

I'm sure KU med will open a paid parking garage for streetcar parking. Just park there and ride it. And get those buidings labeled as historic or get zoning height restrictions on those blocks so they don't get replaced by 5 over 1s if you guys are worried about that.

And to the comment about the area needing residential parking permits, the area already has those. At least I know Bell at south of 39th has signs for needing a residential parking permit for street parking.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:28 pm Eliminating on-street parking and have streetlight priority for the Streetcar could help make 39th work better where dedicated lanes aren't possible.

35th/Armor is heavily residential and has limited opportunity to further develop than is already there vs Linwood which has multiple older mid-rises and a lot of vacant lots to develop.

Yeah, now that I look at it, you are right. I'm just thinking of that section from Broadway to Troost is one of the most densely built up streets in all of KCMO.

Linwood works too. Seems like you could do full blown light rail right of way down Linwood and then it would be easy to someday transition that into LRT along the I-70 corridor to the east.

Taking the line through the heart of Westport and then down the much wider Westport Road does seem to make a lot of sense though. You would basically have both streetcar lines on each end of the plaza area. No way will the people in west 39th allow the parking to go away.

GRID wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:07 pm Taking the line through the heart of Westport and then down the much wider Westport Road does seem to make a lot of sense though. You would basically have both streetcar lines on each end of the plaza area. No way will the people in west 39th allow the parking to go away.

This

Plus the project could also help fix the worst intersection in KC while they're at it

It also offers better connectivity to St Luke's hospital and the patients/employees there

I think Westport Rd makes a lot of sense. Both Westport rd and 39th (outside of the few blocks east of the hospital) need road-diets and westport road has a lot more space to work with. Makes center running much easier. If you stick to main or broadway until 43rd that ROW is very wide too so could have dedicated lanes on that section as well (grassy tram maybe) Many surface lots along Westport Rd to Stateline or Rainbow would allow for infill.

If I had to guess the reason why Westport Rd wasn't considered was because as Dave has said is TDD isn't possible on this section. So infill while a nice bonus isn't likely driving the route selection. 39th is less distance so it's a cheaper route. I think Westport Rd has more opportunities for infill than 39th. But 39th has more small scale apt buildings that contribute to it being denser from the get go.

If you go down Westport Rd you likely get to solve Triangle Of Death. Which at this point I'm not sure the city has the $$$ or will to solve. Streetcar forces a re-design there. While also allowing construction money to resolve that intersection.

Westport road makes way too much sense for a regional system versus how slow 39th st. shared lanes will be. We should just stop building shared lanes on the streetcar wherever possible.

Eminent domain that unused portion of the Westport Landing strip mall parking lot and replace that whole cluster with a roundabout with streetcar crossing LOL.