KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

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langosta
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by langosta »

he literally just read the power point slide
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by alejandro46 »

No NKC or E-W streetcar will happen without a regional vote. BRT won't even happen without it. TDD won't be enough.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

alejandro46 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:38 pm No NKC or E-W streetcar will happen without a regional vote. BRT won't even happen without it. TDD won't be enough.
Can’t secure regional funding without a regional plan, given everyone’s had experience with the streetcar, so hopefully that wins over some of those suburban votes.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by DaveKCMO »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:18 pm
alejandro46 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:38 pm No NKC or E-W streetcar will happen without a regional vote. BRT won't even happen without it. TDD won't be enough.
Can’t secure regional funding without a regional plan, given everyone’s had experience with the streetcar, so hopefully that wins over some of those suburban votes.
http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by GRID »

DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:25 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:18 pm
alejandro46 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:38 pm No NKC or E-W streetcar will happen without a regional vote. BRT won't even happen without it. TDD won't be enough.
Can’t secure regional funding without a regional plan, given everyone’s had experience with the streetcar, so hopefully that wins over some of those suburban votes.
http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/
That's what they have to show for years of more studies for a long range regional transit plan? Did it take all of ten minutes to come up with that? I know I'm negative nancy, but seriously???

It's hard to even read through it all simply because every time I even see BRT mentioned, I can't take the study seriously. That's not really a "plan" though. KC needs something a lot more comprehensive than that and something that is legit like not using regular bus routes and calling them BRT as part of a process to decide what type of transit to use.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by alejandro46 »

GRID wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:15 pm
DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:25 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:18 pm
Can’t secure regional funding without a regional plan, given everyone’s had experience with the streetcar, so hopefully that wins over some of those suburban votes.
http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/
That's what they have to show for years of more studies for a long range regional transit plan? Did it take all of ten minutes to come up with that? I know I'm negative nancy, but seriously???

It's hard to even read through it all simply because every time I even see BRT mentioned, I can't take the study seriously. That's not really a "plan" though. KC needs something a lot more comprehensive than that and something that is legit like not using regular bus routes and calling them BRT as part of a process to decide what type of transit to use.
Agreed, Smartmoves is like 20+ years old. If you put that proposal on a regional ballot, imho it will get shot down by a wide margin.

My theory is that we basically need to take what works (Main Street TDD), expand it to the 5-county metro, and run dedicated rail Tram-Train type transit and BRT through with that new funding. By having a revenue source locked in for the next couple of decades, it will make federal funding easier to get for local match.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by GRID »

alejandro46 wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:06 am
GRID wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:15 pm
DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:25 pm

http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/
That's what they have to show for years of more studies for a long range regional transit plan? Did it take all of ten minutes to come up with that? I know I'm negative nancy, but seriously???

It's hard to even read through it all simply because every time I even see BRT mentioned, I can't take the study seriously. That's not really a "plan" though. KC needs something a lot more comprehensive than that and something that is legit like not using regular bus routes and calling them BRT as part of a process to decide what type of transit to use.
Agreed, Smartmoves is like 20+ years old. If you put that proposal on a regional ballot, imho it will get shot down by a wide margin.

My theory is that we basically need to take what works (Main Street TDD), expand it to the 5-county metro, and run dedicated rail Tram-Train type transit and BRT through with that new funding. By having a revenue source locked in for the next couple of decades, it will make federal funding easier to get for local match.
Exactly. You need a REAL plan. Something comprehensive. Something that will get the interest of voters, both urban and suburban. This is nothing but showing what transit in KC was like in 1980 when KC MO actually had pretty frequent bus service along these routes and many more. I grew up riding the Blue Ridge 28 when it had service as frequent as every ten minutes during the evening and morning rushes and every 15-30 minutes the rest of the day. You could literally walk and just catch a bus any time you want and go downtown.

You need solid ideas or even 20% design plans of Streetcar, LRT and Actual real BRT lines along specific corridors with these key points:

1. You need to show some sort of high quality transit to KCI Airport be it coach buses, BRT, rail or whatever. Something along I-29 to service commuters and the airport. No regional plan will pass without it.

2. You need to show suburban commuter bus routes to Liberty, Blue Springs, Lee's Summit, Belton and Olathe and possibly even suburb to suburb routes like Lee's Summit to Overland Park.

3. You need to brink back frequent bus service to routes that used to have it like Blue Ridge, Wornall, US-40 etc. and have more routes that cross state line seamlessly.

4. You need to show a more robust streetcar system to get people excited about expanding the current system and building new lines. A new streetcar from downtown KCMO to downtown KCK should be looked at as well as a streetcar line Down Troost and a new dedicated transit/recreation bridge to take transit across the river to NKC.

5. Streets like Broadway, Prospect, Indep Ave, North Oak, Indep Ave should all have at least true BRT lines on them if not streetcars along with some east west routes like mentioned in this thread.

6. A true LRT line should at least be looked at for Jackson County at a minimum. Especially with the Royals stadium going downtown and Arrowhead likely staying where it is. Most Jackson County fans could park at the Arrowhead stadium and take LRT to Royals games and all kinds of other events. Plus it can be used by commuters. Then Arrowhead would actually have a real transit connection as well for their events. Jackson County desperately need major infrastructure investment like this.

7. East of Arrowhead should have some serious preliminary designs for transit along the Rock Island rail row and along US-40.

8. KCK could use a full blown true BRT line down State Ave in addition to more local bus service and the downtown Streetcar.

9. Johnson County could finally figure out a way to bring LRT or Commuter Rail to the I-35 corridor and true BRT down Metcalf and or Shawnee Mission Parkway. Again not just for commuting but for Royals games etc.

10. And finally bring in Lawrence to have frequent service from Lawrence to JoCo and the KU Med area where it would connect to the KCMO (and maybe even the KCK) streetcar system.

And while you are at it. Master plan all this into how Amtrak service can be improved in the KC area in downtown and Lee's Summit /Independence and possibly to places like Lawrence to better utilize Union Station. Why can't Missouri (and maybe Kansas) do more with those existing corridors like you see in places like North Carolina with their state run and funded trains?

Now that is a 20-30 year "plan" that will get people excited even if it's not all possible. KC has got to think bigger when it comes to this stuff.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by smh »

My question is what are we doing to improve land use in the Kansas City region? How can we expect to have successful regional transit without some amount of moderate density?
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by DaveKCMO »

Everything we've built has been based on Smartmoves. The region hasn't changed that much. Even still, it was updated not long ago. One RideKC was based on it and assumed BRT for those 'fast and frequent' lines except for streetcar studies currently underway (E/W and North KC).

Basically everyone's critique is based whether we build more rail. I can tell you right now you can't afford more rail than what I just listed if you want to address job access. Replacing an existing bus with light rail or streetcar does not meaningfully address job access because you're spending so much local money on capital match for the feds that could be used for more span and frequency.

And there's zero indication how the public would react to a Smartmoves based plan being on a ballot. It probably wouldn't even be called that, but it sure will align. Of course anyone is entitled to their opinion, but you're not allowed to present that as a factual representation of voter sentiment without some polling data (which we don't have).

Note that Lawrence is technically not in our region as defined by federal transportation policy. Doesn't mean a Johnson or Wyandotte county service couldn't connect there.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by alejandro46 »

DaveKCMO wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:34 pm Everything we've built has been based on Smartmoves. The region hasn't changed that much. Even still, it was updated not long ago. One RideKC was based on it and assumed BRT for those 'fast and frequent' lines except for streetcar studies currently underway (E/W and North KC).

Basically everyone's critique is based whether we build more rail. I can tell you right now you can't afford more rail than what I just listed if you want to address job access. Replacing an existing bus with light rail or streetcar does not meaningfully address job access because you're spending so much local money on capital match for the feds that could be used for more span and frequency.

And there's zero indication how the public would react to a Smartmoves based plan being on a ballot. It probably wouldn't even be called that, but it sure will align. Of course anyone is entitled to their opinion, but you're not allowed to present that as a factual representation of voter sentiment without some polling data (which we don't have).

Note that Lawrence is technically not in our region as defined by federal transportation policy. Doesn't mean a Johnson or Wyandotte county service couldn't connect there.
First, I respect the hard work and others have put in to help push the SmartMoves plan.

To be honest, it's a personal opinion/preference that we should not invest further money into subpar service for marginal improvement. I don't think we can reduce service (I mean it's bare bones as is). But instead of a bunch of minor service improvements proposed in that plan at a pretty high operating cost, imo we need need to focus on a few corridors that should be up-zoned to heck and add more rail and actual BRT. I would be curious about potential funding if we remove the TDD and Half-Cent KCMO transit tax and replace with a regional tax that's the same as the TDD. Going from a half cent to 1% + property tax would probably be able to run a regional system.

A sales tax not to exceed 1 percent on sales within the TDD boundary
A special assessment on real estate within the TDD boundary, with maximum annual rates as follows:
48¢ for each $100 of assessed value for commercial property ($1,536 for each $1 million of market value)
70¢ for each $100 of assessed value for residential property ($266 for each $200,000 of market value)
$1.04 for each $100 of assessed value for property owned by the City (which would mean a total annual City payment of about $810,000)
40¢ for each $100 of assessed value for real property exempt from property tax, such as religious, educational, charitable, etc. property, but only on market value more than $300,000 and less than $50 Million.
A supplemental special assessment on surface pay parking lots within the TDD boundary (not garages and not free parking lots). The maximum rate for the supplemental special assessment on surface pay parking lots will be $54.75 per space per year.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by langosta »

East West Transit Study: We are in the process of writing a RAISE Grant to move the East West Transit Study into Phase two. This will include Advanced Planning, Prelim. Engineering, NEPA.

Staff stated there is no minimum request, potentially we will ask for $3 million among partners. Vice-Chair Townsend asked what is the timeline? Staff stated February 2023, studies are already underway so we’re on track to apply on time. Commissioner Shaw asked which corridor? Staff stated KU campus at 39th & Rainbow to Main Street then North to 31st Street or Linwood Blvd.

Rock Island Master Planning
Assist in planning for important
connections involving Raytown, TSC Brien Starner Coordinating with the EW Corridor Study
and the Rock Island corridor
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by langosta »

KCATA got a federak grant for this project
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by Cratedigger »

langosta wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:59 pm KCATA got a federak grant for this project

KCATA will also receive a $4.5 million federal grant to evaluate an east-west, high-capacity transit connection and complete street enhancements between the University of Kansas Health System and the Truman Sports Complex.
https://fox4kc.com/news/kcata-receives ... rojects/
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by daGOAT »

spends 4.5 m on studies instead of a increasing frequencies then fights density that would justify the investment with increased ridership lmao
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by DaveKCMO »

daGOAT wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:58 am spends 4.5 m on studies instead of a increasing frequencies then fights density that would justify the investment with increased ridership lmao
The city took all of the temporary money that could have been used for increasing frequency and spent it on streetlights. These new grants are for planning or capital projects only.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by langosta »

Didn’t we fire a transit ceo over this
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

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langosta wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:47 am Didn’t we fire a transit ceo over this
For standing up to that, yes.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by DaveKCMO »

Grant description is here: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... eets_0.pdf
Project Description: The planning project will evaluate an east-west, high-capacity transit connection and complete streets enhancement between the University of Kansas Health System and Rock Island Corridor/Truman Sports Complex (Kauffman Stadium and Arrowhead Stadium).

Project Benefits: The project is strong in safety, environmental sustainability, quality of life, mobility and community connectivity, economic competitiveness and opportunity, state of good repair, partnership and collaboration, and innovation. Planning will analyze safety improvements such as the inclusion of medians and pedestrian refuge islands, road diets, lighting, and backplates. The project aims to create a modal shift from personal vehicles to active transportation or transit in an effort to reduced green house gas emissions. Affordable transportation choices will be established as the new transit corridor will be zero-fare. The project involves collaboration amongst the City of Kansas City, the Unified Government of Wyandotte County, UK Health System, KC Area Transportation Authority, and RideKC Streetcar. The project incorporates innovative technologies such as the Mobileye Shield and the Advanced Pedestrian Announcement System.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by daGOAT »

DaveKCMO wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:38 am
daGOAT wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:58 am spends 4.5 m on studies instead of a increasing frequencies then fights density that would justify the investment with increased ridership lmao
The city took all of the temporary money that could have been used for increasing frequency and spent it on streetlights. These new grants are for planning or capital projects only.
grrr, i have to admit the streetlight replacement HAD to happen and fed grants are always for specific causes. it's a big w to even have this in the works. hopefully the city starts taking its density goals more serious, which will cause an undeniable demand for increased frequency, in which route 31 is the most frequent e-w bus line besides the 24 x the 39. progress is progress even if it is not sexy, f.e. renderings and groundbreakings.
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Re: KU/KCK <-----> TSC East/West Transit

Post by langosta »

Streetcar from KUMC to Vanbrunt
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