KCK Gondola

[Chris Stritzel]

There is no interest in setting up transit from downtown KCK and downtown KCMO.
Until the West Bottoms is built out we should focus north to NKC.
NKC is where it's at!

There's a lot of interest in KCK.......but since the metro decides to ignore KCK, that interest is ignored.

Didn’t strawberry hill just murder a project a few months ago? And the UG just went along with it?

They killed 6th and Ann but that project is supposedly coming back with a revision on parking. They lost the fight on Sunflower’s project on Central. And their organizing led to Woodside Village Rosedale being shrunk, but (I think) approved. Slowly but surely, I think UG will just start to ignore the Strawberry Hill NIMBYs because they’ll start to see the benefits of new infill development and transit options.

[FangKC]

The developers need to propose twice the units they want to build. Then when the NIMBYs come screaming, they can negotiate down from that.

[GRID]

There is no interest in setting up transit from downtown KCK and downtown KCMO.
Until the West Bottoms is built out we should focus north to NKC.
NKC is where it's at!

There's a lot of interest in KCK.......but since the metro decides to ignore KCK, that interest is ignored.

KCK has to care about KCK (I mean Downtown KCK) before the rest of the metro can. And Kansas in general needs to care about downtown KCK. Every commercial development in JoCo and by the speedway is subsidized and yet nothing has happened in Downtown KCK. Millions and millions of sq ft of office space has gone up in JoCo and nothing in Downtown KCK. JoCo freaking lured the EPA from Downtown KCK with the help of the state.

The state of Kansas only cares about suburban sprawl and generally only cares about that sprawl in one county. I mean, can you even argue that?

I have always hoped to see downtown KCK thrive, but I don't ever see it doing much.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

There is no interest in setting up transit from downtown KCK and downtown KCMO.
Until the West Bottoms is built out we should focus north to NKC.
NKC is where it's at!

There's a lot of interest in KCK.......but since the metro decides to ignore KCK, that interest is ignored.

KCK has to care about KCK (I mean Downtown KCK) before the rest of the metro can. And Kansas in general needs to care about downtown KCK. Every commercial development in JoCo and by the speedway is subsidized and yet nothing has happened in Downtown KCK. Millions and millions of sq ft of office space has gone up in JoCo and nothing in Downtown KCK. JoCo freaking lured the EPA from Downtown KCK with the help of the state.

The state of Kansas only cares about suburban sprawl and generally only cares about that sprawl in one county. I mean, can you even argue that?

I have always hoped to see downtown KCK thrive, but I don't ever see it doing much.

It’ll take a very concerted effort to say the least. As well as the UG trying to encourage and support development, and I’m not even talking incentives. It seems KCK, but especially downtown KCK has multiple NIMBY types, the “don’t block out view, no new high rises” type, as well as the anti-gentrification types. Both are entertained by the UG, so it isn’t shocking that developers shy away from the area.

[dukuboy1]

Downtown KC is a tough issue. It is surrounded by some underserved and impoverished areas. But also shares neighborhoods and areas with stronger communities with pride & resilience. Trying to strike that balance with new development to keep things going.

I realize there is a little more history & some government type office in downtown KCK, but doing something similar to what "downtown" OP did there off 80th & Metcalf would be neat. Obviously the surrounding areas in some directions pose more challenging demographics & socioeconomic head wins but a getting to a more vibrant downtown KC would be neat and benefit the great KC downtown area(much the same way the growth & development of Northtown has helped each other).

[trailerkid]

This is the most imaginative, stimulating, coherent, practical (yes, practical!) concept to come out of an urban planning in Kansas City in a generation. https://youtu.be/WNo7U8WK6OM?t=1768

Bravo Gunnar Hand!

Except for the fact that KMCO drags developers through years of drama to get projects approved and KCK has one decent project proposed in five decades and proceeds to kill it. I really don't see the point of connecting them anymore...

KCMO needs to just do better and start doing what is best for the city and stop caving to the special interest and selfish. Concentrate on KCMO right now. Sill tons of infill needed there to be messing with spending money to connect to KCK.

And KCK? Well... KCK seems like a lost cause unless you actually like the tacky sprawl by the speedway.

If KCK had even an ounce of passion to build a real city and KCMO was actually seeing consistent development and more than one crane up a time, then yeah, this is actually a pretty neat idea.

I feel like whatever it would cost KCMO to build their side of this would be better used connecting KCMO's own districts together all of which have a brighter future than Downtown KCK.

That's a very short-sided view point and the same view that many legacy leaders in KCK and many in the metro have decided to hold for whatever reason. Ignoring and excluding KCK from the conversation will only continue to cripple us and it doesn't need to be that way. There are a lot more people than you think in KCK who want to develop/redevelopment and to truly make the city great, just gotta get some of these regressive old-heads out (which, luckily, a really bad mayor is actually accomplishing to a certain extend).

Exactly.

Maybe if you wanna "Give up on KCK" -- avoid all topics about KCK. It's easy.

I'm sorry that half the metro lives in Kansas and that irritates people on here so much. Maybe look into counseling options.

The reality is that KCK is here to stay. And KCK's 170,000 STRONG deserve a lot better than having folks say we should just give up. I love KCK. I love KCMO. And I love the idea of creating better connections to these places that seem so incredibly separated and distant today. An efficient, modern, and fast connection would create new opportunities daily for hundreds of thousands of people.

Let's not pretend there aren't major classist and racist overtones to "Giving up on KCK" considering the economic and racial demographics of KCK. In many ways, KCK has already been left behind-- just like the urban core of KCMO during the 70s, 80s, and 90s during white flight days.

Conversely, Strawberry Hill in 2023 is as good(gentrified?) as any urban neighborhood in KCMO (city views, bungalow housing stock, bookstore, bars, coffee, BBQ, etc.). Maybe get out of the Missouri side of an hour and see it.

[alejandro46]

I fine one of the major issues especially with the neighborhoods is the persuasiveness of undesireable (aka check cashing/payday loans), abandonded and/or rundown commercial properties. KCK is a good place and I know people like the value aspect of living there, but it really creates a rough environment when the commerical sectors are in such a state. It also has walkable areas and decent bus service but it needs more density and transit connections to KC that are more bus or streetcar (not gondola).

[GRID]

Exactly.

Maybe if you wanna "Give up on KCK" -- avoid all topics about KCK. It's easy.

I'm sorry that half the metro lives in Kansas and that irritates people on here so much. Maybe look into counseling options. The reality is that KCK is here to stay. And KCK's170,000 STRONG deserve a lot better than having folks say we should just give up.

Let's not pretend there aren't major classist and racist overtones to "Giving up on KCK" considering the economic and racial demographics of KCK. In many ways, KCK has already been left behind-- just like the urban core of KCMO during the 70s, 80s, and 90s during white flight days.

Conversely, Strawberry Hill in 2023 is as good(gentrified?) as any urban neighborhood in KCMO (city views, bungalow housing stock, bookstore, bars, coffee, BBQ, etc.). Maybe get out of the Missouri side of an hour and see it.

What? Get over yourself. I have always wanted KCK's downtown to thrive. It would be so much better than watching Overland Park thrive. If KCK were to have gotten 5% of the development or attention that went to JoCo over the past 50 years, the place would be a totally different place. It would be awesome if downtown KCK was actually a thriving urban place that complimented KCMO. But that place has not changed for the better since I have been alive an I'm getting pretty damn old lol.

I probably have 100 posts mentioning that KCK should be doing some of what they are dong by the speedway downtown. Or anywhere in the city east of the Village West area. All those STAR bonded projects etc. out there and hardly anything in nearly any part of the existing parts of the city. Let alone Downtown KCK.

I mean I even threw a fit when Kdot rebuilt the Lewis and Clark and missed yet another opportunity to fix KCK and connect it to KCMO via something other than an unneeded elevated highway. (670 is plenty enough).

Blame others all you want. The city of KCK and Kansas in general are who have ignored KCK. The entire state revolves around ONE county. An it's too bad. Blame it on racism all you want, KCK and Kansas have had plenty of chances to invest in downtown KCK and change that city for better. Nobody seems to be interested. Not the people, not the local politicians, not the state politicians and not the developers. Why would they when they can get ridiculous incentives to build in affluent JoCo or out in BFE Bonner Springs. Good look with getting excited over a single 5 story apartment building that might go up in the next ten years.

[trailerkid]

What? Get over yourself. I have always wanted KCK's downtown to thrive.

Have you ever considered that transit connections are one of the ways that urban places thrive?

Blame others all you want. The city of KCK and Kansas in general are who have ignored KCK. The entire state revolves around ONE county. An it's too bad. Blame it on racism all you want, KCK and Kansas have had plenty of chances to invest in downtown KCK and change that city for better. Nobody seems to be interested. Not the people, not the local politicians, not the state politicians and not the developers. Why would they when they can get ridiculous incentives to build in affluent JoCo or out in BFE Bonner Springs. Good look with getting excited over a single 5 story apartment building that might go up in the next ten years.

To restate: The flag-waving "Give up on KCK" has racist and classist undertones. Especially when you want resources to go to NKC because they built one pickle ball bar and a "loft" building with $1500 studios in the last 20 years.

I probably have 100 posts mentioning that KCK should be doing some of what they are dong by the speedway downtown. Or anywhere in the city east of the Village West area. All those STAR bonded projects etc. out there and hardly anything in nearly any part of the existing parts of the city. Let alone Downtown KCK.

There is a proposal from the Wy Co Planning Director to do something downtown. Where is your support now?

[GRID]

What? Get over yourself. I have always wanted KCK's downtown to thrive.

Have you ever considered that transit connections are one of the ways that urban places thrive?

I probably have 100 posts mentioning that KCK should be doing some of what they are dong by the speedway downtown. Or anywhere in the city east of the Village West area. All those STAR bonded projects etc. out there and hardly anything in nearly any part of the existing parts of the city. Let alone Downtown KCK.

There is a proposal from the Wy Co Planning Director to do something downtown. Where is your support now?

Yep. I edited my post after you quoted but I mentioned the Lewis and Clark. That should have never been rebuilt back to what it originally was. But Kansas, KCK and KDot are hell bent on keeping I-70 running through there instead of running it along the 670 viaduct where it should be.


KCK has no idea what they are doing, but good luck to them.

[GRID]

Again, you are arguing with the wrong person. I have posted many times. The Cerner buildings should be in downtown KCK. The soccer stadium should be in downtown KCK. The minor league baseball stadium should be in downtown KCK. I mean hell even Camden NJ figured out how to put stuff downtown.

People in the KC area love the Village West area. I can't stand that area. It's just terrible in every way. The speedway is fine. Everything else out there? All while the entire rest of KCK basically rots away?

Again, I hope KCK can turn itself around. But I think it's much more likely that you will see more STAR bonded shit in the Bonner Springs area.

[trailerkid]

KCK has no idea what they are doing, but good luck to them.

KCK's Planning Director was born and raised KCMO, instrumentational with BNIM for the KCMO streetcar expansion and was previously Senior Urban Designer with SOM in LA.

What credentials are you looking for?

Again, you are arguing with the wrong person. I have posted many times. The Cerner buildings should be in downtown KCK. The soccer stadium should be in downtown KCK. The minor league baseball stadium should be in downtown KCK. I mean hell even Camden NJ figured out how to put stuff downtown.

People in the KC area love the Village West area. I can't stand that area. It's just terrible in every way. The speedway is fine. Everything else out there? All while the entire rest of KCK basically rots away?

Again, I hope KCK can turn itself around. But I think it's much more likely that you will see more STAR bonded shit in the Bonner Springs area.

What about the aerial lift / gondola that was proposed by the Planning Director?

[GRID]

The Lewis and Clark should have been downgraded and it could have been easily been used as a streetcar/pedestrian link between the downtowns. I don't know how long the planning director has been there though.

I'm fine with the Aerial Lift. I actually think it's a good idea. I just think the West Bottoms is probably decades from being buit out enough to really justify it. But if it they can pull it off, I'm for any sort of transportation infrastructure investment.

All I said is that I think KCMO should concentrate on their own urban core. KCMO has a single streetcar line and a pretty shitty bus system overall. I just said I think KCMO would be better off building more streetcar, LRT, bus lines vs spending money to connect to KCK (or JoCo or even NKC). Clay and Platte should fund that north extension alone. If they can't do it, then KCMO is better off building up its transit system within Jackson County.

[trailerkid]

I'm fine with the Aerial Lift. I actually think it's a good idea. I just think the West Bottoms is probably decades from being buit out enough to really justify it. But if it they can pull it off, I'm for any sort of transportation infrastructure investment.

West Bottoms is today what Xroads was in 2000. So we need to think 20 years from now, 50 years from now, 100 years from now. There is actually $400M being invested in the West Bottoms rn. We must start thinking about future generations instead of what can be enjoyed in the near term. What mark will we leave on the KC Metro?

Not only would the aerial lift be an efficient means to get across the river and the old industrial districts, but it would also serve as an aerial trip through our past, present and future. It is only this type of transit connection that can accomplish creating this type of civic and geographical consciousness.

[SilentSpades24]

There is no interest in setting up transit from downtown KCK and downtown KCMO.
Until the West Bottoms is built out we should focus north to NKC.
NKC is where it's at!

There's a lot of interest in KCK.......but since the metro decides to ignore KCK, that interest is ignored.

Didn’t strawberry hill just murder a project a few months ago? And the UG just went along with it?

UG staff and commission approved the Change of Zone to let 6th and Ann happen, however, the BOZA decided to be sticklers on parking for whatever reason.

[SilentSpades24]

What? Get over yourself. I have always wanted KCK's downtown to thrive.

Have you ever considered that transit connections are one of the ways that urban places thrive?

I probably have 100 posts mentioning that KCK should be doing some of what they are dong by the speedway downtown. Or anywhere in the city east of the Village West area. All those STAR bonded projects etc. out there and hardly anything in nearly any part of the existing parts of the city. Let alone Downtown KCK.

There is a proposal from the Wy Co Planning Director to do something downtown. Where is your support now?

Yep. I edited my post after you quoted but I mentioned the Lewis and Clark. That should have never been rebuilt back to what it originally was. But Kansas, KCK and KDot are hell bent on keeping I-70 running through there instead of running it along the 670 viaduct where it should be.


KCK has no idea what they are doing, but good luck to them.

The last part of your statement is full of it. KCK is currently working on getting Downtown KCK designated a historic district, which will allow for tax credits to be reused to maintain and repair some of it's old commercial buildings. They are also working on getting a Main Street program setup for Downtown KCK. Additionally, KCK is updating it's Master Plan and is looking to overhaul their zoning regulations soon to be more development friendly within the urban core. The suggestion that there isn't work being done is bogus (at least on a staff level).

Yes, KCK and KCMO need to focus on their own problems, but anytime their is a chance to collaborate and/or work on connections between one another, there's no excuse not to do it, and to suggest they shouldn't is highly short-sided.

[SilentSpades24]

There's a lot of interest in KCK.......but since the metro decides to ignore KCK, that interest is ignored.

KCK has to care about KCK (I mean Downtown KCK) before the rest of the metro can. And Kansas in general needs to care about downtown KCK. Every commercial development in JoCo and by the speedway is subsidized and yet nothing has happened in Downtown KCK. Millions and millions of sq ft of office space has gone up in JoCo and nothing in Downtown KCK. JoCo freaking lured the EPA from Downtown KCK with the help of the state.

The state of Kansas only cares about suburban sprawl and generally only cares about that sprawl in one county. I mean, can you even argue that?

I have always hoped to see downtown KCK thrive, but I don't ever see it doing much.

It’ll take a very concerted effort to say the least. As well as the UG trying to encourage and support development, and I’m not even talking incentives. It seems KCK, but especially downtown KCK has multiple NIMBY types, the “don’t block out view, no new high rises” type, as well as the anti-gentrification types. Both are entertained by the UG, so it isn’t shocking that developers shy away from the area.

The problem isn't the UG on a staff level, it's certain elected officials who have been around for fa4 too long and neighborhood groups (Strawberry Hill) who are more interested in keeping things as they are and not allowing anything else to be built or allowing development to push the envelope.