New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Suburbanites have to drive 20-30 mins, find & pay for parking, drive all the way back home.

Urbanites can take a free streetcar, be there in 10-15 mins.

With so many fewer barriers for urbanites to get there, I don't see why we'd be discounting more urbanities going to the game. With all the barriers to get down to a game, I don't see why a JoCo person would be clamoring that hard to get a women's soccer game...compared to people who literally have no barriers.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by Cratedigger »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:16 pm Suburbanites have to drive 20-30 mins, find & pay for parking, drive all the way back home.

Urbanites can take a free streetcar, be there in 10-15 mins.

With so many fewer barriers for urbanites to get there, I don't see why we'd be discounting more urbanities going to the game. With all the barriers to get down to a game, I don't see why a JoCo person would be clamoring that hard to get a women's soccer game...compared to people who literally have no barriers.
I don't think we're discounting urbanites from going. Just making the point that a lot of people and families from JoCo will also want to drive to games.

Even if I lived in south JoCo, if I have a 8 year old daughter who wants to be the next Mia Hamm or Alex Morgan (or Sam Mewis!), I'm taking her to games. I don't care how far I'd have to drive.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by GRID »

Because everybody has different interests and it will take the entire region of 2.5 million people to fill a regular season women's soccer stadium.

Just like it takes the entire metro to sustain exhibits at Union Station or events at the T Mobile or the Kauffman Center.

You will get "some" from the unban core, but the vast majority will be from the outlying parts of KCMO proper, the suburbs and areas beyond the immediate metro area.

Also, I think it will take way more than 10-15 minutes. I think it will take 15-20 minutes for a tram to just get across the Grand viaduct during events unless they close it to cars during events which might be a good idea.

Also just to show what I mean about living near the stadium doesn't matter much, my son and wife have lived in two different towers within two blocks of Nats park and every time we go to a game with them, I feel like we are the only people in their buildings that went to the game. And most of the neighbors they knew couldn't really care less about the Nats being there. Again, KC might be different because it's so sports crazy per capita, but just because there are people living with very easy access doesn't mean they have any interest in going to games.

It simply takes a large market to support major league attractions and events and like any city, most of KC's market is outside downtown or even the RCP. Probably like 90% or more.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by GRID »

freedog wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:28 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:16 pm Suburbanites have to drive 20-30 mins, find & pay for parking, drive all the way back home.

Urbanites can take a free streetcar, be there in 10-15 mins.

With so many fewer barriers for urbanites to get there, I don't see why we'd be discounting more urbanities going to the game. With all the barriers to get down to a game, I don't see why a JoCo person would be clamoring that hard to get a women's soccer game...compared to people who literally have no barriers.
I don't think we're discounting urbanites from going. Just making the point that a lot of people and families from JoCo will also want to drive to games.

Even if I lived in south JoCo, if I have a 8 year old daughter who wants to be the next Mia Hamm or Alex Morgan (or Sam Mewis!), I'm taking her to games. I don't care how far I'd have to drive.
Right. I know people that are soccer crazy in Lee's Summit that drive to Sporting KC all the time and that is a hike and a half.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by FlippantCitizen »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:16 pm Suburbanites have to drive 20-30 mins, find & pay for parking, drive all the way back home.

Urbanites can take a free streetcar, be there in 10-15 mins.

With so many fewer barriers for urbanites to get there, I don't see why we'd be discounting more urbanities going to the game. With all the barriers to get down to a game, I don't see why a JoCo person would be clamoring that hard to get a women's soccer game...compared to people who literally have no barriers.
It's simple. This metro is over 2 million people. Only a small fraction live in the RCP corridor. It will undoubtedly be a popular thing to do for urban dwellers to get on the streetcar or cycle or Uber to a game, but basically any large event in KC is going to draw a preponderance of people from suburbs simply because that is where the preponderance of people live.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by phuqueue »

People who have already chosen to live a JoCo lifestyle are not going to consider it a "barrier" to drive 20-30 minutes, park, and drive back home. It's literally what they do every time they leave their home to go anywhere.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Good. Then the Royals will get perfectly fine attendance downtown then if the barriers are basically irrelevant for a downtown stadium.

Logically, even more attendance now since you're also now adding in a huge base that can take free streetcars to the games.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:49 pm Good. Then the Royals will get perfectly fine attendance downtown then if the barriers are basically irrelevant for a downtown stadium.

Logically, even more attendance now since you're also now adding in a huge base that can take free streetcars to the games.
Royals will draw fine downtown if they play well. Probably more than they ever have at the TSC. However, if they do ten years in a row of sucking, they will likely draw worse than they do now. See Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore etc. All three have amazing downtown stadiums that used to average 30-40k for years in a row. Now they can barely bring in 10k fans most nights.

90% of fans live outside of downtown and you have to have a reason to get people to go to a game in a downtown on a weeknight.

Speaking of that, I need to get my Royals at O's tickets for this week still!
Last edited by GRID on Wed May 04, 2022 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

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GRID wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:53 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:49 pm Good. Then the Royals will get perfectly fine attendance downtown then if the barriers are basically irrelevant for a downtown stadium.

Logically, even more attendance now since you're also now adding in a huge base that can take free streetcars to the games.
Royals will draw fine downtown if they play well. Probably more than they ever have at the TSC. However, if they do ten years in a row of sucking, they will likely draw worse than hey do now. See Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore etc.
Why?

You & others just said a suburban fan base will show up downtown at the same rate as anywhere else in their lives, right? So take that base number they're getting from TSC low times, and now combine it with urbanites who can go to games with zero barriers now and you have a higher floor of attendees.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by GRID »

There is just an "easy" factor to the TSC that can't be overlooked even if it's not really legit.

Even from Olathe you can be at Kauffman Stadium and in your seat in 40 minutes for most games. Most of your fan base just will never see eye to eye that parking downtown could be as easy at the TSC. Most will factor in more traffic and a higher risk of crime as well.

I'm just saying that the only thing that will really bring in more fans is a winning team and a winning team combined with a new downtown stadium would likely draw more than Kauffman ever had drawn. But once stadium honeymoon is over, attendance will go right back down and maybe even go lower than it is now.

And that's actually fine because even if you have 12,000 downtown on a Wednesday night that would otherwise not be there, downtown is better off. However, if the stadium is surrounded by parking lots ready to accommodate 30-40k fans, then it could actually do more harm than good downtown. I mean look at the area around the Houston Astro's stadium. No matter how many parking garages are nearby, you are going to end up with a lot of surface parking lots popping up near a stadium. And KC has no transit options for the vast majority of fans.

KC is stuck between a rock and a hard place with a downtown stadium. No real transit infrastructure, pretty poor downtown roadway infrastructure and high crime. That all adds up to very low attendance after the newness of the stadium wears off and the team still sucks. This is why I sort of think it would be better to build new at the TSC and invest in proper transit to the TSC instead. But if KC can pull off new downtown park, I'm obviously all for that too. I'm just afraid a new stadium will be like KCI and be bare bones economy. Kauffman is old and in a terrible location but for watching a game, it's one of the top five parks in the league. I would hate to see KC mess that up.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

GRID wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:12 pm attendance will go right back down and maybe even go lower than it is now.
Nope
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by Cratedigger »

To bring this somewhat back on topic, I think the newness of the Current allows for the drive to not feel like as big of a deal. There isn’t a past stadium/experience that people can compare it to. People don’t like change, but since this is just how it is, it’ll be a cool, new experience
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:16 pm Suburbanites have to drive 20-30 mins, find & pay for parking, drive all the way back home.

Urbanites can take a free streetcar, be there in 10-15 mins.

With so many fewer barriers for urbanites to get there, I don't see why we'd be discounting more urbanities going to the game. With all the barriers to get down to a game, I don't see why a JoCo person would be clamoring that hard to get a women's soccer game...compared to people who literally have no barriers.
This is not an ease of use argument, it's about understanding the demographics of your fanbase. Understanding who your brand appeals to and will ultimately end up consuming your product. It was mentioned by others in other posts but soccer is a niche sport, women's soccer even more so. However there is a very sizable niche fanbase in the KC Metro for soccer and even women's soccer. Women's soccer just happens to skew more to suburban residents, that is not a knock on anyone just a fact, a verifiable fact with data and everything 8)

I started the discussion of hoping they plan on some sort of parking solution because of where your prime fanbase is located as another post said the stadium was being developed with zero parking.

I could care less about parking because I'm not a soccer fan and will made end up going to maybe 1-2 matches a year, and that's if someone has a ticket for me to use. I have no dog in this fight but from a development standpoint and knowing this is an amazing opportunity for the city and a way for KC to further its brand I was just hoping someone in a meeting some time might raise their hand and say "guys, we may want to figure out some kind of parking, as the majority of the fanbase is going to be driving in for games"

Streetcar is great and a wonderful solution, but it would require additional assets added to the service, especially for match days. Is this being planned on along with the parking?
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

also, I'm not saying that driving to the game is a negative, it is not. It is easy enough to drive to Royals and Chiefs games now. Yes there is traffic and it can be a hassle to leave. But some patience and being prepared will help avoid that. I'm saying that it appears a bit shortsighted for the Current to not have any kind of plan for parking as you are designing your stadium.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by alejandro46 »

Current or DT Baseball, I think as long as there is proper signage and a lot of police and 'yellow shirt' people like at the K directing traffic on gamedays we can still make it convenient to go to a major sporting event downtown. We just need to manage the traffic well.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

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alejandro46 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:36 am Current or DT Baseball, I think as long as there is proper signage and a lot of police and 'yellow shirt' people like at the K directing traffic on gamedays we can still make it convenient to go to a major sporting event downtown. We just need to manage the traffic well.
This. Also keep those areas safe on event nights
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

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GRID wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:12 pm There is just an "easy" factor to the TSC that can't be overlooked even if it's not really legit.

Even from Olathe you can be at Kauffman Stadium and in your seat in 40 minutes for most games. Most of your fan base just will never see eye to eye that parking downtown could be as easy at the TSC. Most will factor in more traffic and a higher risk of crime as well.

I'm just saying that the only thing that will really bring in more fans is a winning team and a winning team combined with a new downtown stadium would likely draw more than Kauffman ever had drawn. But once stadium honeymoon is over, attendance will go right back down and maybe even go lower than it is now.

And that's actually fine because even if you have 12,000 downtown on a Wednesday night that would otherwise not be there, downtown is better off. However, if the stadium is surrounded by parking lots ready to accommodate 30-40k fans, then it could actually do more harm than good downtown. I mean look at the area around the Houston Astro's stadium. No matter how many parking garages are nearby, you are going to end up with a lot of surface parking lots popping up near a stadium. And KC has no transit options for the vast majority of fans.

KC is stuck between a rock and a hard place with a downtown stadium. No real transit infrastructure, pretty poor downtown roadway infrastructure and high crime. That all adds up to very low attendance after the newness of the stadium wears off and the team still sucks. This is why I sort of think it would be better to build new at the TSC and invest in proper transit to the TSC instead. But if KC can pull off new downtown park, I'm obviously all for that too. I'm just afraid a new stadium will be like KCI and be bare bones economy. Kauffman is old and in a terrible location but for watching a game, it's one of the top five parks in the league. I would hate to see KC mess that up.
High crime downtown? I’m more comfortable parking downtown than I am at TSC on a game day. People have died in that parking lot.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:41 am
GRID wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:12 pm There is just an "easy" factor to the TSC that can't be overlooked even if it's not really legit.

Even from Olathe you can be at Kauffman Stadium and in your seat in 40 minutes for most games. Most of your fan base just will never see eye to eye that parking downtown could be as easy at the TSC. Most will factor in more traffic and a higher risk of crime as well.

I'm just saying that the only thing that will really bring in more fans is a winning team and a winning team combined with a new downtown stadium would likely draw more than Kauffman ever had drawn. But once stadium honeymoon is over, attendance will go right back down and maybe even go lower than it is now.

And that's actually fine because even if you have 12,000 downtown on a Wednesday night that would otherwise not be there, downtown is better off. However, if the stadium is surrounded by parking lots ready to accommodate 30-40k fans, then it could actually do more harm than good downtown. I mean look at the area around the Houston Astro's stadium. No matter how many parking garages are nearby, you are going to end up with a lot of surface parking lots popping up near a stadium. And KC has no transit options for the vast majority of fans.

KC is stuck between a rock and a hard place with a downtown stadium. No real transit infrastructure, pretty poor downtown roadway infrastructure and high crime. That all adds up to very low attendance after the newness of the stadium wears off and the team still sucks. This is why I sort of think it would be better to build new at the TSC and invest in proper transit to the TSC instead. But if KC can pull off new downtown park, I'm obviously all for that too. I'm just afraid a new stadium will be like KCI and be bare bones economy. Kauffman is old and in a terrible location but for watching a game, it's one of the top five parks in the league. I would hate to see KC mess that up.
High crime downtown? I’m more comfortable parking downtown than I am at TSC on a game day. People have died in that parking lot.
Surban populace has a pretty low opinion on the area around TSC. Certainly worse than downtown.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by GRID »

normalthings wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:50 am
DColeKC wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:41 am

High crime downtown? I’m more comfortable parking downtown than I am at TSC on a game day. People have died in that parking lot.
Surban populace has a pretty low opinion on the area around TSC. Certainly worse than downtown.
normalthings wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:50 am
DColeKC wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:41 am
GRID wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:12 pm There is just an "easy" factor to the TSC that can't be overlooked even if it's not really legit.

Even from Olathe you can be at Kauffman Stadium and in your seat in 40 minutes for most games. Most of your fan base just will never see eye to eye that parking downtown could be as easy at the TSC. Most will factor in more traffic and a higher risk of crime as well.

I'm just saying that the only thing that will really bring in more fans is a winning team and a winning team combined with a new downtown stadium would likely draw more than Kauffman ever had drawn. But once stadium honeymoon is over, attendance will go right back down and maybe even go lower than it is now.

And that's actually fine because even if you have 12,000 downtown on a Wednesday night that would otherwise not be there, downtown is better off. However, if the stadium is surrounded by parking lots ready to accommodate 30-40k fans, then it could actually do more harm than good downtown. I mean look at the area around the Houston Astro's stadium. No matter how many parking garages are nearby, you are going to end up with a lot of surface parking lots popping up near a stadium. And KC has no transit options for the vast majority of fans.

KC is stuck between a rock and a hard place with a downtown stadium. No real transit infrastructure, pretty poor downtown roadway infrastructure and high crime. That all adds up to very low attendance after the newness of the stadium wears off and the team still sucks. This is why I sort of think it would be better to build new at the TSC and invest in proper transit to the TSC instead. But if KC can pull off new downtown park, I'm obviously all for that too. I'm just afraid a new stadium will be like KCI and be bare bones economy. Kauffman is old and in a terrible location but for watching a game, it's one of the top five parks in the league. I would hate to see KC mess that up.
High crime downtown? I’m more comfortable parking downtown than I am at TSC on a game day. People have died in that parking lot.
Johnson County populace has a pretty low opinion on the area around TSC. Certainly worse than downtown.
Fixed that for you. I know a ton of people that live in Jackson County, Clay County etc that go to a lot of games and while they all know the area around the TSC is pretty cruddy, most don't seem to care as it has little impact on going to games and they certainly don't think it's dangerous or ghetto like so many in JoCo think. Nobody thinks the area around the stadiums is a great area, but JoCo people make it out to be way worse than it is while at the same time, ignoring all nice parts of suburban jackson county etc. Even most of Independence and Raytown is simply working class modest areas that people in JoCo have no clue about.

However, I do think that most people in ALL of suburban KC are somewhat concerned about crime in Downtown KC if they had to park in a garage or parking lots many blocks away from a downtown stadium.

I'm not saying I agree with them (even though KC does generally have high crime) but that is something people do think about.
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Re: New Riverfront Women's Soccer Stadium

Post by daGOAT »

Goonies wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:02 am Nope. Good luck ladies.
very random... explain?

edit// just saw the price went up smh
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