KCRag Forum

The attendance threshold would be set pretty high to support an NBA team. The lowest home crowd support in the NBA is OKC but they still averaged 15,000 per game in 2023. From the list, however, city size is not the primary variable for determining support although it does appear to matter (the two smallest NBA metros OKC and Memphis are near the bottom of the attendance rank but giant metro Houston is too).

https://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

I do think the downtown location of T-Mobile Center would certainly help relative to the Kemper West Bottoms locale the King's played in.

NBA would do big money here but would also close Grand down at any point so we'd have to see even more of those posts.

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:53 am I think the most telling number is where that list stops, 1985. The NBA in the 70's and early 80's was a struggling league. Bird & Magic helped lay some foundations for things to come and then Jordan became Jordan after 85 and the league never looked back.

IMO I think KC would embrace the NBA and be a great market. Plus I like it would the only NBA team in MO and situated nicely to have some decent rivals with OKC, Minn, Milwaukee, CHI, Memphis, Dallas and Houston. Throw in Indy as well. I hope we could get a team to relocate

NBA would do great in KC. Like many have said, if the Kings just stayed a few more years as the NBA popularity took off, they would still be in KC today.

I'm surprised how few people mention the KC Comets as being one of the reasons the Kings attendance went down. The Comets were very popular and outdrew many NBA and NHL teams during their peak years. It was just bad timing for the Kings, but a team in Downtown KC today would do really well I think.

GRID wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:57 am I'm surprised how few people mention the KC Comets as being one of the reasons the Kings attendance went down. The Comets were very popular and outdrew many NBA and NHL teams during their peak years.

A year before the San Francisco Fog moved to KC and became the Comets the Kings entertained the idea of buying an indoor soccer team. For some of us working at Kemper they showed us some video of an indoor soccer match. From an administrative standpoint with their current office staff and a few additions they thought they could manage a soccer team. Buying a team was cheap but they eventually ruled it out.
Next year came the Comets, and more importantly the Leiweke brothers. Many of the Kings owners and management personnel were in their suite at the first Comets game. They were just there with blank looks on their faces. We had a saying about the Leiwekes - they could sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo if they wanted to. Also they sold the sizzle and not the steak.
About the attendance, they papered the house and the announced attendance was neither the tickets out there nor the turnstile count. The number came from Tod's mind who always wanted a bigger attendance number than the game before.

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting that the NBA will focus on adding two teams after the media rights deal is done. Most likely Vegas and Seattle

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:57 pm ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting that the NBA will focus on adding two teams after the media rights deal is done. Most likely Vegas and Seattle

It was always the plan for KC to be a relocation city. Most likely the next domino that falls (cough cough New Orleans cough)

Yep, now the real work begins. Seattle is going to spread itself so thin like the Twin Cities on team support. Very ambitious but neither city can support NFL, MLB, NBA, WNBA, MLS, & NHL all at once, Seattle has an NWSL team too. It's crazy.

TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:19 am Yep, now the real work begins. Seattle is going to spread itself so thin like the Twin Cities on team support. Very ambitious but neither city can support NFL, MLB, NBA, WNBA, MLS, & NHL all at once, Seattle has an NWSL team too. It's crazy.

??

Seattle is a growing metro of 4M+, one of the wealthiest and most expensive cities in the country, and home to Microsoft, Amazon, Costco, Boeing, Starbucks etc. Seems premature to be worried about adding another pro sports team or two...

Seattle will do just fine. Think of it like an Atlanta, the epicenter of sorts for the Pacific Northwest. Plus they have a history of having an NBA team, that did well. Vegas to me is silly but just driven by the fact that fans from other areas will keep the franchise alive. The NHL does ok, as it was the first pro team and the city embraced it more as their own. The Raiders are vagabonds that have chased dollars all over the West. Most of their home games have like 60-65% on average filled with visiting team fans. Plus a large amount of their fan base still commutes in from CA on game day. NBA may do better but Vegas is no sports town, just a money town and money is the trump card that always wins.

The NBA is hell bent on keeping a franchise in New Orleans. It's more for PR reasons than business or fan reasons. I'd love for KC to get an NBA team, and realize relocation is our only option. But it may be an uphill battle.

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:33 pm Seattle will do just fine. Think of it like an Atlanta, the epicenter of sorts for the Pacific Northwest.

Atlanta lost their NHL team last decade

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:33 pm The NBA is hell bent on keeping a franchise in New Orleans. It's more for PR reasons than business or fan reasons.

Based on what?

Did you know, and I just found this out recently, that the New Orleans metro is smaller than Omaha's now? It's down to 972k people as of this years census projection. And it's not like it lives in a big state that all follows and picks up the slack- Louisiana is small. Tourism is on the decline there too.

I very much struggle to see how they manage to hold down an NFL & NBA team in such a declining tiny spot especially with ownership instability, arena decay there on the horizon. They'll keep the Saints because it's NFL, but I give it 10 years tops for the Pels.

Didn't the NBA basically own the team in NOLA for several years before an ownership group was found? Even now do they help subsidize the team? Perhaps I'm wrong on both accounts. But it was my understanding that after Katrina there were those in the NBA that wanted to make sure a team stayed there more for the optics than for good business sense. Again, I may be wrong and mixing up news reports and such from over the years.

But I agree NOLA is best at supporting 1 team and that is the NFL, otherwise it is all about college sports, as is much of the SOUTH. I'm all for getting the Pelicans to KC. Just think there may be some other hoops to jump through beyond basic business and fandom issues.

Yeah, Gail Benson is selling that team out of town. I don't even think the NBA could really do much & relocation from other owners after expansion would likely happen. And this is all before all the NOLA climate change stuff that keeps happening.

I think the NBA will try harder to keep Memphis as a market than NOLA.

TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:50 pm Yeah, Gail Benson is selling that team out of town. I don't even think the NBA could really do much & relocation from other owners after expansion would likely happen. And this is all before all the NOLA climate change stuff that keeps happening.

I think the NBA will try harder to keep Memphis as a market than NOLA.

Correct. And the nice thing about Memphis having a team is it takes Nashville off the table for NBA.

She owns the Saints & Pelicans. When she dies, they have already said they are much more concerned with retaining the Saints than Pelicans -- and I don't blame them for that, it's the NFL. Just get Mahomes ownership group in place by then and we've got a good shot.

The NBA doesn't really have any noticeable weaklink franchises. Baseball has had the A's and Rays for long enough and theres 4/5 in hockey. Heck even the NFL has sort of carried around the Chargers too. Can't see New Orleans readily moving, and I'm well aware the Saints and football in general are far more popular there than the Pelicans and basketball. Its a good event city, with an arena in an excellent location, a state willing to contribute tax dollars to event venues because they bring in money and events outside major league sports tenants, plus the metro size is deceptive. As a market like KC weirdly, its sort of on an island in terms of being isolated from other major cities so a lot of 250-500k metros gravitate to it for things like pro sports - Baton Rouge, Biloxi, Mobile etc. Even as far as Pensacola.

Think we never mind Seattle should be careful about spreading ourselves thin. Look at all the moaning and groaning over the Royals. If an NBA team arrived are we able to give public dollars to the NBA, MLB, NFL and potentially MLS, do we have the corporate base to share between four teams? There could easily be an odd man squeezed out there. I'm quite fine supporting what we currently have. I know thats maybe not the trendy thing to say.

Vegas is all based on out of towners, its a KC sized metro with a transient population. Mark Davis even half seems to regret moving there because of all the visiting fans. I have real doubts that will sustain all these teams its getting as the novelty wears off over time.

My thoughts on KC supporting an NHL or NBA team is if the city can support all the sports teams and other entertainment options it does in the summer (worlds of fun, zoo, festivals etc) then it should be able to support a pro team in the winter when there is little going on. Especially the only real pro team that plays in the middle of downtown which will be a draw by itself.

I agree on LV though. No way are they going to be able to support every league in that market long term.

What people forget in regards to a NBA team is KU is similar to a NBA team in ticket prices and cost to attend so you if we added a NBA team, it would be like a relatively small metro without enough Fortune 500 companies having to support 1.5 NBA teams in addition to all the other pro sports we have. I know a lot of people don't like KU, but KU takes away from KC being able to properly support a NBA team. Now if KC could crank up the tourism and growth rate, I think the NBA would have a better chance, but I just think the entertainment dollar here is being stretched too thin without quite a few more large corporations to suck up big chunks of tickets.

Don't know who has seen NBA's product the last few years, but it's terrible. Bunch of soft premadonas chucking up threes. No thanks.

KCFan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:41 am What people forget in regards to a NBA team is KU is similar to a NBA team in ticket prices and cost to attend so you if we added a NBA team, it would be like a relatively small metro without enough Fortune 500 companies having to support 1.5 NBA teams in addition to all the other pro sports we have. I know a lot of people don't like KU, but KU takes away from KC being able to properly support a NBA team. Now if KC could crank up the tourism and growth rate, I think the NBA would have a better chance, but I just think the entertainment dollar here is being stretched too thin without quite a few more large corporations to suck up big chunks of tickets.

KU has no bearing on whether an NBA team comes around or not lol

shinatoo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:34 pm Don't know who has seen NBA's product the last few years, but it's terrible. Bunch of soft premadonas chucking up threes. No thanks.

That’s because chucking up threes has been proven time and time again to be the most efficient way to score in the league (besides a dunk). The NBA would need to move the line back (which probably won’t make a difference unless it’s a 2-3 foot move) or allow serious hinderance of movement to occur. But if you move the line back, you add even more space to the court that is “devalued” from a scoring standpoint.

The players are so skilled at shooting now. The reason the midrange shooter no longer exists is even the best midrange player was only making ~50-53% of their mid range shots. You have many players shooting over 40% from three year in and year out now. You can do the math on which shot earns more points over a ten shot sample.

The NBA finds itself in an interesting spot: the players are too good.

Baseball is arguably undergoing the same problem: players either strike out or hit a home run—because analytics have proven that to be the best way to score because pitching has gotten too good. Banning the shift, in part, was meant to address this, but the league will need to lower the mound sooner than later. Pitching is too good.

DMNBT_RCJH wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 4:53 pm

shinatoo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:34 pm Don't know who has seen NBA's product the last few years, but it's terrible. Bunch of soft premadonas chucking up threes. No thanks.

Baseball is arguably undergoing the same problem: players either strike out or hit a home run—because analytics have proven that to be the best way to score because pitching has gotten too good. Banning the shift, in part, was meant to address this, but the league will need to lower the mound sooner than later. Pitching is too good.

Agree 100% on the NBA. But that's even the case in college now - layups and 3 pointers. Not much in between.

A little off subject but MLB stats in 2023 shows 9 players with batting averages above 0.300
https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_ ... /2/teams/7

Go back to 2002 (earliest ESPN offers the stats) and there were 35 players with batting averages above 0.300.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_ ... /2/teams/7

Once an enormous baseball fan, I don't follow the game near as much as I used to but was wondering what happened to all the 0.300 hitters. Little wonder why the Royals moved the fences in, they could not compete fielding the type of teams they had in the late 70's and 80's; those teams really do not exist any more.