Office project at 27th & Main

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8518
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by earthling »

normalthings wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:17 pm Really just shows how weak the downtown KC office market has been historically.
As a metro KC has an unusually high amount of office space and city core overall is quite a bit (RCP corridor) compared to peer cities. KC also has two economic centers about same size, which is not common for a market of only about 2M. Competition across state line aslo keeps the lease rates in check but these also of course take away from downtown as the center of activity. Cerner's decision to building an 80's style office park (so last century) didn't help.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8518
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by earthling »

normalthings wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:17 pm KC needs to take a look at what's going on even in St. Louis and push for/incentivize similar.
Commerce is downsizing from one place in Clayton to this in Clayton, so does it make sense to use incentives with no new jobs and subsidizing higher rent for office for a company increasing vacancy? For this 27th/Main project, no new jobs for KCMO either while increasing Midtown vacancy, should there be incentives? Dedicate a floor to public services/recreation then maybe so but not for building isolated private islands.
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by AlkaliAxel »

earthling wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:23 am
normalthings wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:17 pm Really just shows how weak the downtown KC office market has been historically.
As a metro KC has an unusually high amount of office space and city core overall is quite a bit (RCP corridor) compared to peer cities. KC also has two economic centers about same size, which is not common for a market of only about 2M. Competition across state line aslo keeps the lease rates in check but these also of course take away from downtown as the center of activity. Cerner's decision to building an 80's style office park (so last century) didn't help.
What I never understood about the Cerner thing was that with so much of it's employee base being young, why were they so scared of downtown? It's not like they can claim "the employees all just are dads in JoCo"
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by WoodDraw »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:34 am
earthling wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:23 am
normalthings wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:17 pm Really just shows how weak the downtown KC office market has been historically.
As a metro KC has an unusually high amount of office space and city core overall is quite a bit (RCP corridor) compared to peer cities. KC also has two economic centers about same size, which is not common for a market of only about 2M. Competition across state line aslo keeps the lease rates in check but these also of course take away from downtown as the center of activity. Cerner's decision to building an 80's style office park (so last century) didn't help.
What I never understood about the Cerner thing was that with so much of it's employee base being young, why were they so scared of downtown? It's not like they can claim "the employees all just are dads in JoCo"
The execs all lived out in loch loyd and were allergic to urban offices. Don’t think that’s changed.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by flyingember »

WoodDraw wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:23 am The execs all lived out in loch loyd and were allergic to urban offices. Don’t think that’s changed.
Basically the same execs opened a business downtown, then called Sporting Innovations.

I think it comes down to tax dollars and the cheapest possible land. They picked sites based on cost and didn't care where it was.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7188
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by beautyfromashes »

flyingember wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:34 am Basically the same execs opened a business downtown, then called Sporting Innovations.
I hate it when people mention Sporting Innovations in these discussions like it’s some type of consolation. It’s not.
dukuboy1
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1031
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:02 pm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by dukuboy1 »

Cerner started and sill has their world HQ in NKC. They started up there and were comfortable with the location. Some of the original Exec's lived up North at the time but eventually moved to different location in town. The proximity to NKC Hospital was nice and helped with product development, testing etc. Also being in NKC helped them avoid the e-Tax in KCMO which might have been useful when starting the business originally.

Not sure why they never wanted a big tower downtown, perhaps they felt the campus setup was better for the work they were doing. It would be nice to see them have a tower where their Executives and some other business lines work out of and they own the tower and lease to others. But keep the campuses for the other work and such.

I'd love to see a few more large employers downtown but honestly the best bet downtown has is for a smaller company to grow larger and have an emotional attachment to downtown and want to keep their HQ there. If they get big enough, build a tower or be the major tenant in a spec office build. The larger companies are set in their ways and will not be moving in mass to downtown. Perhaps have a business line or division but not a HQ shift for sure. Again best bet is to focus on those up and coming companies to grow and occupy office space downtown
swid
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:29 pm
Location: Union Hill

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by swid »

Going back to the actual topic of this thread, the Union Hill neighborhood association and the Union Hill Homes Association are both *extremely* against this project. While I'd like to say the opposition is because of the design's meh ped/transit interactions, the main reason (even beyond the incentive request) is the belief it's going to impact the neighborhood's precious views towards the northwest.

The development team shot themselves in the foot by not creating renderings of how it would (not really) impact the views towards Liberty Memorial.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by normalthings »

swid wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:31 am Going back to the actual topic of this thread, the Union Hill neighborhood association and the Union Hill Homes Association are both *extremely* against this project. While I'd like to say the opposition is because of the design's meh ped/transit interactions, the main reason (even beyond the incentive request) is the belief it's going to impact the neighborhood's precious views towards the northwest.

The development team shot themselves in the foot by not creating renderings of how it would (not really) impact the views towards Liberty Memorial.
Its not a protected view shed, why do they get a say
moderne
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5492
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
Location: Mount Hope

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by moderne »

Of course they are against it. People usually act in their self interest and a view influences property values. Union Hill lost most of its downtown view when much taller Shook Hardy building went up. It can be no surprise to anyone that a building is going up at 27th and Main. That big model sat down in the CC shops for decades gathering dust, showing a building at this site and others to come.
langosta
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1502
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 4:02 am

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by langosta »

Let’s block their entire view. NIMBYs
User avatar
Critical_Mass
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 995
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Union Hill

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by Critical_Mass »

swid wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:31 am Going back to the actual topic of this thread, the Union Hill neighborhood association and the Union Hill Homes Association are both *extremely* against this project. While I'd like to say the opposition is because of the design's meh ped/transit interactions, the main reason (even beyond the incentive request) is the belief it's going to impact the neighborhood's precious views towards the northwest.

The development team shot themselves in the foot by not creating renderings of how it would (not really) impact the views towards Liberty Memorial.
Of course, the Union Hill neighborhood association and the Union Hill Homes Association do not include the residents now living in Gallerie and Icon apartments, nor the townhomes next to them, all within the neighborhood boundaries. The residents in those three building alone probably outnumber the residents in the older area south of the cemetery. I'm a homeowner inside the Union Hill boundaries (but outside of the UH Homes Association boundary) and I fully support this project.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18141
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

Union Hill residents don't own any rights to a view--regardless of their property values. They will still have a view of downtown buildings; it will just be closer. It may not affect their property values anyway because demand for those houses and condos might increase having more people working within walking distance of that office building. The streetcar proximity will also increase their property values as well.

Office buildings and apartment towers along 27th Street and Main will likely provide more tax revenue to the City than all of those houses combined.

Anyone who bought a house looking over Crown Center thinking that view would be preserved forever is simply a moron.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8518
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by earthling »

^Especially given CC has had a master plan for decades showing a general target for more hirises.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18141
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

Image
Kansas City firm wants millions in tax breaks to move a mile into new, $83M offices
...
Fidelity Security Life Insurance is seeking tax breaks on an office building it plans to build at 2700 Grand Boulevard... It proposes an eight-story office building set atop a five-floor garage that will house 400 parking spots.

... Fidelity Security is seeking a 15-year property tax abatement that would cut taxes in the first decade by 70%, and by 30% for the following five years. That’s estimated to be worth $7.5 million. The company is also seeking a sales tax exemption on construction materials and $3 million from the Missouri Works program, which is aimed at encouraging business expansion and retention.
...
An independent financial analysis said incentives were needed to make the project financially viable. But it also showed the company could achieve similar returns on its investment with just a 10-year abatement.
...
Fidelity Security has pledged to retain 300 jobs in Kansas City with an average salary of $82,500. ... The amount of parking included in the building has been a major point of contention. The financial analysis completed by S.B. Friedman says the $16.7 million parking costs account for 20% of the total cost of the project. And parking was identified as one of the primary reasons why the project needs incentives.

... Fidelity Security Life Insurance is funding the construction of its building and will own it. The company plans to occupy 100,000 square feet of the building, leasing the remaining 53,810 square feet. Frantze said the insurance firm would not move forward with the project unless it receives the requested incentives.
...
https://www.kansascity.com/news/busines ... rylink=cpy
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8518
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by earthling »

^Will be interesting to see if Fidelity Security threatens a move to Kansas. And if KS offers incentives many will blame them rather than the company for taking advantage of whomever offers incentives.

A possible reasonable incentive for the building (not the company) is to offer a floor or two for any kind of public services for 15 years.
kcjak
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:02 pm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by kcjak »

Why doesn't Fidelity move into the Waddell building?
kboish
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3258
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: West Plaza

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by kboish »

Just curious- are there office projects of this size that get built in OP/Leawood without incentives? Like the new buildings on the Sprint campus, do they get any incentives?
Last edited by kboish on Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
kboish
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3258
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: West Plaza

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by kboish »

I mean certainly the sprint campus originally got incentives, and then got incentives again to revamp the buildings once Sprint consolidated and half the campus got leased out to firms moving there from MO. But, outside of that, do typical buildings with structured parking get incentives?
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by chaglang »

It's on a major transit line. Incentives to pay for 5 floors of parking is absurd. Let them walk.
Post Reply