2023 KCMO Election

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grovester
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by grovester »

beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:07 pm I didn't see an outright lie in the request. He said let's say 300 miles instead of around 300 miles. Seems pretty innocuous to me, and how are going to be positive that the number of miles won't be increased? Of course, government workers are usually pretty letter of the law and maybe Hernandez wanted to say, "We are repaving 287.6 miles." This is where business and public service diverge pretty strongly. A business owner wouldn't waste the time to research the exact number running a few people around for a day to get the number. Private businesspeople would just say, "About 300." and get on with some more important work.
It feeds into an existing narrative.

It's also something that was easily avoidable, which speaks to judgment.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

grovester wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:13 pm It feeds into an existing narrative.

It's also something that was easily avoidable, which speaks to judgment.
To me, it says that Platt is running the city like a business. The examples in the story mean absolutely nothing. Makes me appreciate him more. I've seen bean-counters slow a running machine to a crawl. Get on with the business at hand of growing the city and producing better results than we've had in the past.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Chris Stritzel »

I would rather have someone in office who lies and nitpicks (like all politicians do) instead of someone who takes bribes to do someone’s dirty work at the government level.

Platt has done a lot of good here (from what we can see). As long as he doesn’t take bribes, I’m fine with him and I imagine most others are as well.
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FangKC
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

How about having someone in office who doesn't take bribes AND doesn't lie about things not worth lying about?

I have seen public servants take a lot of heat by telling the exact truth about things when they could have lied and not had to take heat at all. Those are the public servants you want. If you will lie about the little things, you will lie about bigger things as well.

I want an efficient city that is seeing progress, but I don't want anyone in office lying to accomplish it.

Platt already is walking on thin ice with some council members anyway. Why do things like this and throw gas on the fire?

I worked for a public information officer at a state agency who had been a reporter and managing editor of the state's largest newspaper. He always advised the director of the agency, and management, to never lie to the press or the public about anything -- no matter what. They followed his advice. That director was the longest serving in the agency's history and survived four different governors from both parties.

The other thing is this: if any of this is true, it's not smart on Platt's part. He is a guy who comes from outside Kansas City. He has no natural constituency here or long-time loyalty from staff based on a years-long relationship. To start asking long-time permanent staff to do things they are uncomfortable doing is just bad form. You don't know the lay of the land. You don't know what city employees are telling council members things you've asked or done. It's just very stupid. The other thing is creating conflict with an employee who used to BE part of the media. People in the media tend to be very supportive of other journalists and former colleagues. What a way to draw even more scrutiny to everything you do than to create a conflict with a former journalist. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Plenty of people can do good work for the City and not have to lie about such details.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

FangKC wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:52 pm If you will lie about the little things, you will lie about bigger things as well.
You really believe this?
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FangKC
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

Yes. Seen it in action too many times among some people.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

FangKC wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:36 pm If Platt did tell city staff to lie to the media, he should be fired immediately by the Council.
I’d strongly disagree with this take, especially considering the noticeable improvements in basic city functions since Platt has taken on the role.

Should he have told them to lie, if he actually did? Obviously not. Does it warrant immediate termination, especially with the way the report read. Not at all, at least not without a full investigation. This seems like a very intentional hit piece, that is meant to rally against the outsider to KCMO. Given that Hernandez has a history at 41, it’s not out of the question that this entire situation could be stretched truth, as he wouldn’t have difficulty with getting it to be published.

I’m not saying either party is more substantiated than the other here, as it’s very much a “he said she said” situation, but it’s suspicious to say the least that a major figure who has brought about a lot of change in a relatively short time frame, and an outsider to KC at that, is being painted in such a low light. It seems targeted, and it seems like the goal is to get him out, but that’s just my perspective
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Chris Stritzel »

One thing I want to know, and this is general curiosity, why does the City Manager have so much power despite being unelected and appointed by the Mayor? It seems a bit backwards to me. This isn't anything against Platt or his predecessors, but it seems a bit wild that the Mayor is basically just a fancier City Council At-Large member who gets to sign things into law and have "Mayor" as a title rather than "Councilman". The City Manager seems to get to call a lot of shots.

Shouldn't the Mayor have more influence than the City Manager? Can this ever be changed to a Mayor-Council system like a lot of other cities?
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

I'm just getting the vibe that all this angst against Platt the past few months has been because he's trying to disrupt and do things a different way. People who have been around for awhile don't like that. And that when you make hard changes you take a ton of arrows. That's sorta my read on things. Keep Platt around, he's doing great thing.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:24 am …why does the City Manager have so much power despite being unelected and appointed by the Mayor?
I think this is a fairly recent change, and for the better. We need a professional manager who doesn’t get caught in the quagmire of politics slowing progress to a halt. It used to be mostly council-run, with mayor having slightly more abilities/power. I’d say this change to more manager-run is part of the reason KC is getting more done in the last decade.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Fountains wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:37 am This post is mind blowing. If true you have a public employee intentionally misleading the public.
During a discussion about how to handle local media, Hernandez alleges that Platt asked, “Why can’t we just lie to the media?”
Platt then allegedly replied, "Why not? In Jersey, we had a mayor who would just make up numbers on the fly from the podium, and no reporters ever called him on it.”
It’s mind blowing to point out the people don’t actually say things like this outside of a Mob movie? All of these claims are unsubstantiated, and come from a person who is no longer working for the city, and has previously worked for the news agency that broke this story. I don’t think it’s ridiculous to treat this with a healthy level of skepticism until substantive evidence is produced, or an investigation is completed. Until then it is nothing more than “He said, She said”.

Again, if it’s found that those instructions were given by Platt, and he was directly misleading on serious matters, it becomes more reasonable to terminate him. Saying 300 miles of resurfacing when it was “about 300 miles”, is hardly something to terminate someone over though…
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by phuqueue »

If it's so easy to brush off the difference between "300 miles" and "nearly 300 miles," it should raise the question why Platt insisted that it be changed in the first place. The article itself is fairly light on details, which will presumably come to light as the lawsuit progresses, but I think there is a clear difference between a scenario in which the city is repaving, to use bfa's number, 287.6 miles of road and just publicizes it from the start as "300 miles" (which is still not true, but maybe it's in the ballpark enough to give it to them) vs. the scenario alleged here, in which the city is repaving 287.6 miles of road and plans to publicize it as "nearly 300 miles" (accurate) before Platt specifically intervenes to say "300 miles" (close but not actually true). If the discrepancy here is negligible, why did Platt demand the change?

But we are also missing the forest for the trees to get fixated on this "300 miles" vs. "nearly 300 miles" thing. Public officials have a duty to operate transparently, but maybe "300 miles" vs. "nearly 300 miles" is close enough not to be worth quibbling over. On the other hand, the allegation of retaliation is a real problem and 100% warrants termination if substantiated.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

phuqueue wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:10 am On the other hand, the allegation of retaliation is a real problem and 100% warrants termination if substantiated.
This I absolutely agree with, should it be retaliatory. Given it could go both ways, and could be Hernandez trying to get back at the one who fired him for a legitimate reason as well. More info will come out in the suit, though, so all of this is just speculating. Time will tell
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FlippantCitizen
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FlippantCitizen »

Jeez.... Platt has been very effective. I like him and everything he has brought to KC. Nothing in the article really screams definitively foul to me. This Hernandez guy could have been demoted for literally anything such as not being on the same page as leadership on things other than "lying." Who knows? But in anycase the process of finding out will drag Platt through the mud whether there is any there there or not.

The 300 vs almost 300 is a mind numbingly stupid red herring. This is our local press's idea of a scandal or an article worthy of publishing? Seriously, it is a summary of a lawsuit with nothing but the word of Hernandez. There is not a single other quote in the article. KSHB says they reached out to KCMO for comment but other than that they didn't want to make any other calls? Solicit any other quotes that could back this up?

I guess I'll be waiting with bated breath to find out more. :roll:
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by shinatoo »

There are a lot of unhappy city employees, and they blame Platt. But that's a natural response to change, especially from government employees. Trying to restructure a culture is going to gain you a lot of enemies.

That's why it's especially important for Platt to be unimpeachable in his actions. He didn't do himself any favors here.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FlippantCitizen »

shinatoo wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:39 am There are a lot of unhappy city employees, and they blame Platt. But that's a natural response to change, especially from government employees. Trying to restructure a culture is going to gain you a lot of enemies.

That's why it's especially important for Platt to be unimpeachable in his actions. He didn't do himself any favors here.
Basically, this is my take on it too.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

shinatoo wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:39 am There are a lot of unhappy city employees, and they blame Platt. But that's a natural response to change, especially from government employees. Trying to restructure a culture is going to gain you a lot of enemies.
I'd agree with this. He seems to have put the city into high gear. Many people don't want to be in high gear. Perhaps Hernandez was one of those people. Time to clean house.
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Cratedigger
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Cratedigger »

What a mess. You can read the full filing here. It's only 7 pages and honestly, the article sums it up well enough.

https://www.scribd.com/document/6130430 ... from_embed
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:05 am
shinatoo wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:39 am There are a lot of unhappy city employees, and they blame Platt. But that's a natural response to change, especially from government employees. Trying to restructure a culture is going to gain you a lot of enemies.
I'd agree with this. He seems to have put the city into high gear. Many people don't want to be in high gear. Perhaps Hernandez was one of those people. Time to clean house.
Yeah this seems about right, but it's unfortunate that this was filed. Now every time Platt tries to make a change, people who disagree will certainly point to this.

For the record, I'm thankful and have hope for what Platt can do in KC. It seems like he has been effective in pushing a perspective that does not come naturally here. To make change in KCMO's gov has to be like turning an aircraft carrier around. The 300 vs 400 miles of street is dumb. But regardless of how it plays out - even if nothing else comes out - the implication will follow.
FangKC wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:52 pm How about having someone in office who doesn't take bribes AND doesn't lie about things not worth lying about?

I have seen public servants take a lot of heat by telling the exact truth about things when they could have lied and not had to take heat at all. Those are the public servants you want. If you will lie about the little things, you will lie about bigger things as well.

I want an efficient city that is seeing progress, but I don't want anyone in office lying to accomplish it.

Platt already is walking on thin ice with some council members anyway. Why do things like this and throw gas on the fire?
I think we can all agree this is the ideal. Hopefully we can agree this is the expectation
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Chris Stritzel »

I read through the document. Seems like the complaint centers around the mileage issue and debate over it. That seems to be the only thing lied about at all (if you want to call rounding out the number a lie). If other details, such as other instances of lying, were provided in as much detail as the repaving issue in this filing, then I feel like there might be a problem warranting a suspension or being fired.

If additional details of demanding to lie the media about other things, especially if they're more vague, comes out after this filing, I would start to assume this is retribution for being demoted. So then it becomes a two way street. If Platt demoted Hernandez over his actions, and now he's suing to get payback, who's the more petty one here?

Besides, the filing says Platt later started using the 300 mile number instead of 400 mile number in tweets. Getting upset over reports of potholes being filled is, in my view, justified. If the city is repaving roads and the Star only wants to focus on potholes being filled and the subsequent redirection of funds to cover repaving jobs, then yes, I'd be upset too because the bigger picture is being ignored.

As far as I'm concerned, this does not need to be as big of a deal as it is.
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:40 am
Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:24 am …why does the City Manager have so much power despite being unelected and appointed by the Mayor?
I think this is a fairly recent change, and for the better. We need a professional manager who doesn’t get caught in the quagmire of politics slowing progress to a halt. It used to be mostly council-run, with mayor having slightly more abilities/power. I’d say this change to more manager-run is part of the reason KC is getting more done in the last decade.
Ah. Well that makes sense then. It just feels strange to me.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FlippantCitizen »

Image


Slightly more large cities use a Mayor-Council system but Council-Manager not uncommon. KC has been under a Council-Manager System since the 1920s.
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