Katz on Main

[AlkaliAxel]

Since I have zero interaction with people in their 20s in KC, I am curious - are folks in this age bracket (who don't follow development or geek-out on KC minutiae like us) excited about KC? Like people graduating college or folks looking to relocate for work, do they WANT to go to KC? Or is it more of, "well my job is in KC, which is ok I guess, I hear it's not too bad."

Yes, that’s been the big shift (from what I’ve noticed). I’ve noticed a very vivid mindset difference

Just ask anyone about putting the stadium/streetcar downtown and you’ll either get a self-loathing “we’re not a city that’s meant for that” (the older crowd) or you’ll hear an optimistic “yes please” (the younger)

When I was really young kid here nobody ever cared about downtown, nobody ever talked about liking KC, and I just didn’t see any pride. It seemed like most people lived here just because a job made them.

But people in my age bracket don’t act like that for the most part. Most of them don’t look at KC as some boring bland dump like I’d hear about as a small kid. They seem to view it as a pretty lively city, with a good amount of things to do. You don’t really hear them saying “I want to move out” that often. There’s alot more pride in the city. I think the peers recognize the city is growing as well. I think the advent of Mahomes and the Chiefs really helped this as well.

Another huge change I noticed is in the businesses. I see alot more of them now tying themselves to KC. On social media, and on their buildings, you see businesses talking about their attachment to KC. I don’t remember seeing that as much before.

[chaglang]

Mahomes is super late to the party. There was some momentum downtown dating to at least the PAC construction in 2007, and probably started in earnest sometime in the Barnes Administration. But 2011-15 are IMO when this really kicked off. We saw the election of Sly James, the MLB ASG, a streetcar, IKEA (don't laugh), and the Royals in the World Series twice.

As for the generational divide, so easy. It's not that stark, and people's priorities change as they get older. Maybe a DT stadium or streetcar is less valuable to them than is would have been when they were younger and going out more.

[Cratedigger]

people like myself have only known “the good life” KC here

Since I have zero interaction with people in their 20s in KC, I am curious - are folks in this age bracket (who don't follow development or geek-out on KC minutiae like us) excited about KC? Like people graduating college or folks looking to relocate for work, do they WANT to go to KC? Or is it more of, "well my job is in KC, which is ok I guess, I hear it's not too bad." I am sure it's not as exciting as Denver, Chicago, whatever, but I would like to think there is some enthusiasm...

I'll throw my two cents in here. Probably a little different since I'm not actually in KC now (but hope to one day get back).

On the job side, I know a lot of people that felt limited by the opportunities KC offered. If you're going to pursue a career in Finance, Tech, Consulting or Music it's just a lot tougher to get good starting momentum in KC. Of course it can happen, but it's easier in a bigger city. Or even a Denver/Nashville/Austin/Phoenix that is exploding right now. So a majority (~60% of the friends I had in High School) aren't in KC anymore unfortunately. I start with that to say, there's a ton of hometown pride even when those people are not living in KC. A lot of the people who moved away still feel a connection with the city, are proud to wear Charlie Hustle and talk up the Chiefs. Tons of hometown pride.

For people that aren't from KC that are graduating college or folks looking to relocate for work, it's a tougher sell than other cities. Pittsburgh probably deals with this too - cool city, passionate locals, those outside the metro sleep on it. I remember a career advisor at my non-Midwest college trying to sell a few KC area jobs to students in my major. Not a lot of takers. The issue wasn't the job, it was them not knowing what KC had to offer. And really not caring to learn either.

For my friends in KC still, they love it and they all want to live near downtown (XRoads, Westport, Waldo, Brookside, PV, Roeland Park). Even those who are working out in Overland Park. They love the energy of downtown, being close to P&L, the Plaza and First Fridays and are excited about stuff like the streetcar expansion and the KC Current stadium.

Hopefully all of that helps lend some perspective? Ultimately, I do think that there has been a huge mindset shift from our age group about downtown KC and what Kansas City has to offer. My earliest memories of downtown are really just passing through on the way to the airport and noticing the smell of coffee. By the time I really started exploring the city, P&L and Sprint Center were built. So that is the energy and the KC we identify with.

TLDR: People who grew up in KC want to be connected with the city. A good amount left for opportunities in other cities. But if the stars aligned and the opportunity was there, they'd come back. KC doesn't have a strong appeal to people outside of the midwest. However, once there they're pleasantly surprised with the energy of the city

[phuqueue]

When I was really young kid here nobody ever cared about downtown, nobody ever talked about liking KC, and I just didn’t see any pride. It seemed like most people lived here just because a job made them.

That is a JoCo attitude, not a people-older-than-you attitude

[Cratedigger]

When I was really young kid here nobody ever cared about downtown, nobody ever talked about liking KC, and I just didn’t see any pride. It seemed like most people lived here just because a job made them.

That is a JoCo attitude, not a people-older-than-you attitude

Even if so, isn't it a great thing that the downtown revival is changing that? Seems like an absolute win for KCMO if people that grew up outside of the city limits want to be downtown

[AlkaliAxel]

But 2011-15 are IMO when this really kicked off.

I agree- this was about the time period where I felt a shift as well, especially the later 2010's in people's attitudes towards KC.

As for the generational divide, so easy. It's not that stark, and people's priorities change as they get older. Maybe a DT stadium or streetcar is less valuable to them than is would have been when they were younger and going out more.

I had a feeling this would be said about the stadium (people's priorities changing as they aged), but I don't think that's the case. Here's why

There is a (older) segment of the population that literally says "We're not a city that's supposed to have a thing like a downtown stadium. That's for places like Chicago." Has nothing to do with their priorities changing- they say that line because that's what they've been raised to believe in KC.

My point is that the vast majority of younger people didn't grow up thinking like that. And herein lies the generation divide.

[AlkaliAxel]

When I was really young kid here nobody ever cared about downtown, nobody ever talked about liking KC, and I just didn’t see any pride. It seemed like most people lived here just because a job made them.

That is a JoCo attitude, not a people-older-than-you attitude

Ok, let's say that's true

Kids growing up in JoCo now want to be downtown. Don't sit here and tell me that's the way an 18 year old JoCo kid felt in 1997.

And therein lies the generational gap. My generation wants to be downtown, the older one was...indifferent. That's my take.

[AlkaliAxel]

Ultimately, I do think that there has been a huge mindset shift from our age group about downtown KC and what Kansas City has to offer.

Thank you. And I've talked about this Hugo on here as well (also our generation) and he agree's.

[FangKC]

people like myself have only known “the good life” KC here

... Artists and the like have dispersed to cheaper areas--Old NE, east side, KCK, whatever, but as far as I can tell there have not been any new "nodes" pop up of any significance. ... 20 years ago we would have predicted breweries, bars, and eclectic retail on Indep Ave, St. John, Central Ave (KCK), Troost, and for the most part it isn't happening?
...

There is some of that activity in the Historic Northeast. The new Pendleton Arts building is geared towards artist apartments and studio space.

There are three coffee houses in the Northeast now. Pendleton Heights Coffeeat Lexington and Brooklyn (Lexington turns into St. John), Eleo's on Independence Avenue, and Splitlog Coffee behind Pendleton Arts Building on Olive.

The old retail building across Lexington from Pendleton Heights Coffee is being renovated.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1064495 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1110472 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1060281 ... 312!8i6656



The former Federal Complex (Quartermaster's Depot) is also going to be converted into a food hub and neighborhood business anchor. Northwest University State University plans to open a satellite campus there. The former Bella Hess building on the site will be converted into 352 apartments.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1004196 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Five houses on my block in North Indian Mound have undergone complete gut renovations in the past three years. I'm expecting another one to be renovated in the next year, since the long-time owner died. I get at least one phone call a week from someone seeking to buy my house. Based on neighborhood Facebook comments, many report they are as well.

[Cratedigger]

As for the generational divide, so easy. It's not that stark, and people's priorities change as they get older. Maybe a DT stadium or streetcar is less valuable to them than is would have been when they were younger and going out more.

That's fair! Priorities absolutely do change as one gets older. Maybe that will be the case in our generation as well. Honestly, I only know what I know. I can't compare my view of downtown with what it used to be. I can only read into how others talk about how it used to be.

What I can say is that most of the people in my age group want to to be near downtown, even if their job is a bit of a drive.

[FangKC]

The biggest change I would like to note in the past 20 years is that downtown inside the Loop doesn't have a derelict feeling. There is really no significant blight left, which changes the overall impression.

The other notable thing is that Kansas City has been getting a lot of good media coverage in the past 10 years.

[langosta]

The biggest change I would like to note in the past 20 years is that downtown inside the Loop doesn't have a derelict feeling. There is really no significant blight left, which changes the overall impression.

The other notable thing is that Kansas City has been getting a lot of good media coverage in the past 10 years.

East and North feel very blighted to this day. A covid project was to walk every block really shifted my thinking from "this is less than ideal" to "this is really bad."

[AlkaliAxel]

The biggest change I would like to note in the past 20 years is that downtown inside the Loop doesn't have a derelict feeling. There is really no significant blight left, which changes the overall impression.

The other notable thing is that Kansas City has been getting a lot of good media coverage in the past 10 years.

I agree. I remember we took a field trip there when I was like 8 years old and it looked like STL. Then I came back 10 years later for college and was like 'WHOA!"

[TheLastGentleman]

Since I have zero interaction with people in their 20s in KC, I am curious - are folks in this age bracket (who don't follow development or geek-out on KC minutiae like us) excited about KC? Like people graduating college or folks looking to relocate for work, do they WANT to go to KC? Or is it more of, "well my job is in KC, which is ok I guess, I hear it's not too bad." I am sure it's not as exciting as Denver, Chicago, whatever, but I would like to think there is some enthusiasm..

As a member of this demographic, I've heard nothing but good things from non-geeks I've encountered. A person at my work, who has lived in NYC and Miami for extended periods and is fairly new to KC, says that he thinks KC is kicking ass. People I graduated with say KC hasn't reached Austin costs "but is going to." I think people outside our sphere view KC as booming.

For what it's worth, I've also heard a lot of concern about cost of living, rent, gentrification, ect. This is coming from people who've probably never picked up a copy of the Star in their lives, so I think this is coming from some degree of lived experience. Another person at my work says rent for a lot of apartments downtown are equal or higher than his mortgage.

Unfortunately, a lot of people my age are settling in different cities across the country instead of KC. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them eventually return but there's definitely some brain-drain happening.

[TheLastGentleman]

Adding onto this, I think the U.S. has a peculiar relationship to "hometowns" in general. It's extremely common in my experience for people to leave middle America to "go to the big city" on a coast when their young, get absolutely FREAKED THE HELL OUT by living in some of the most demanding and powerful cities on the face of the planet, and later return, with PTSD, to the "peace and quiet" of their hometown.

This is so tragic to me because even though the KC metro holds 2.2 million people, it still isn't "the big city" to a lot of people. This isn't just KC though.....most US cities struggle with this, and I think it leads to an unusual amount of internal migration. The average resident of the US moves 11 times in their lives. The average human moves only 4 times.

[AlkaliAxel]

I think people outside our sphere view KC as booming.

When I was at the Denver airport last weekend eating lunch, the server noted I was from KC and asked "isn't that place growing alot?" and that he'd been looking at moving there. So yes, I can back up that claim as well. I think people from states near us like Colorado, Iowa, etc. know this.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I think people outside our sphere view KC as booming.

When I was at the Denver airport last weekend eating lunch, the server noted I was from KC and asked "isn't that place growing alot?" and that he'd been looking at moving there. So yes, I can back up that claim as well. I think people from states near us like Colorado, Iowa, etc. know this.

A good few people I’ve talked to while driving Uber in AUS have mentioned similar things about wanting to visit KC because they’ve heard great things from their friends, or wanting to move there for the cost of living. Granted it’s only been a handful of people, but a lot of those conversations were initiated by these individuals after seeing my Kansas plate

[chaglang]

But 2011-15 are IMO when this really kicked off.

I agree- this was about the time period where I felt a shift as well, especially the later 2010's in people's attitudes towards KC.

As for the generational divide, so easy. It's not that stark, and people's priorities change as they get older. Maybe a DT stadium or streetcar is less valuable to them than is would have been when they were younger and going out more.

I had a feeling this would be said about the stadium (people's priorities changing as they aged), but I don't think that's the case. Here's why

There is a (older) segment of the population that literally says "We're not a city that's supposed to have a thing like a downtown stadium. That's for places like Chicago." Has nothing to do with their priorities changing- they say that line because that's what they've been raised to believe in KC.

My point is that the vast majority of younger people didn't grow up thinking like that. And herein lies the generation divide.

Sure... maybe? Absolute statements about the beliefs about an entire demographic are always suspect. Likely that the proximity to downtown has more bearing than any kind of imagination failure by olds. The closer you live to something, the more likely you are to value it. Downtown skews younger than the rest of the city, you live downtown and talk to your neighbors, voila, "the younger generation gets the stadium" becomes a statement of fact.

I don't live downtown, I'm over 30. Some of my neighbors like the stadium idea, others don't. Some grew up in the city, some are from the burbs, some from out of the metro. Some like the current stadium and don't mind the drive, some love the idea of taking the streetcar to a DT stadium, some don't like the public funds the city will inevitably throw at it, some love what a stadium would mean for downtown. In my experience I haven't seen a generational connection. Unsurprisingly, it's more complicated than that.

[DaveKCMO]

Back to Katz, please.

[taxi]

"Katz Stadium"!