KCRag Forum

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:27 am

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:57 amAgain I don't know but just trying to frame it beyond "big dummies, use public transit"

The $350 million transit project outside should at least allow projects right next its stations to reduce parking. I'm not expecting it to be eliminated, especially for a mixed use development that's at the high end of the market.

Although if they're seeking incentives, shouldn't they seek to comply with the city's policy goals?

yes, fair points indeed and I completely understand. My question is if they reduce allotted square footage for reduce parking, what do they do with that excess? more curious than anything else. Perhaps they do nothing and it ends up being a NET savings in cost, or it becomes something new. Or maybe it is as simple as adhering to the policy goals. I'm not a builder or "armchair architect" just someone who enjoys staying on top of development news, city happenings & growth and such. Curious as to the thoughts of what changes with reduction in parking.

They would want to build the same size building without parking or more building.

Imagine leasing costs $20 per sq foot for office space and $150 per month for a parking spot.

The parking spot size is 153 sq ft. So that's $1.7 per sq foot. (18x8.5)

So a developer is making ~10x as much with the actual building in gross profit. Sure, the finished space costs more but not 10x more.

Required parking just increases the incentive ask developers go for. Make it be a bank requirement or developer choice but there should be zero reason incentives come because the city is requiring someone lower their profit margin with parking.

Triangulation:

The building favored for River Market (Flaherty & Collins) suggests a 300 apartment (plate size undefined) structure of 12 stories.

It's a fair hypothesis the Holiday Inn site would be of similar footprint and similar height: 10-14 stories.

That height supposition is supported by precedent: There are several multifamily structures in the Plaza district of similar height, thus it is less controversial AND would probably be scrutinized less by financing entities.

From a personal standpoint: The commanding view from that hill would be beautiful from a southwest exposure towards the Plaza Basin AND from a northern exposure towards the downtown.

I do sincerely hope this development materializes.

^Good points. Seems this is going to happen but is curious they started teardown before even renderings released. Less property tax? This project may not take off for a while given building materials shortages but they were rushed to get in proposal before the deadline for incentives w/out affordable units. Might end up as an empty lot until building material costs/availability reach normal levels.

2021 might see many project announcements that take their time to break ground. And hopefully this project spurs some action in the empty grass lot to S of QT.

Holiday Inn building was finished regardless of this proposal. It’s reflected in the cheap selling price.

The View condos downtown has 144 units in 17 floors. I would expect Museum Tower to be at least that tall.

moderne wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:39 pm The View condos downtown has 144 units in 17 floors. I would expect Museum Tower to be at least that tall.

That has to be one of the best spots in all of KC for a tall residential building with its location adjacent to the plaza and the museums and on that hill with views all the way downtown. But you would have to go at least 20-25 floors for the top few floors to not be obstructed by other tall buildings along Main Street to the north and west.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:29 pm From the "Plaza Bowl" ordinance.

The purpose of the Plaza Bowl Overlay is to establish land use regulations and limit
building heights for an area generally located on the south and north sides of 47th Street
(extending northerly to the north side of 46th Terrace), between Madison Avenue on the
west, and J.C. Nichols Parkway on the east. These restrictions may be more prohibitive
than those of the underlying zoning.

From the Main Street Overlay:

195' height allowed at this spot.

Is that the height of the American Century buildings?

This shows American Cent buildings at 236 feet, but it might be measured from backside garage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ,_Missouri

The Marriott just to the north is listed at 229 feet so I would expect this tower to be 250' or more for it to stand out and provide penthouse views.

1. I think everything so far indicates a tall building

2. I don’t think it has to be tall for it to be grand. Something around 10-15 floors but wraps around the site will looks massive and quite impressive from the south.

Without a variance on the height, it'll probably max be 16 floors from the 45th St side.

Updates?

demo work seems to be stalled

In May, a 'pre-design' was submitted for "Food/Beverage Service, Retail (Other), Hotel/Motel".
https://www.construction.com/projects/d ... oliday-inn

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:12 am In May, a 'pre-design' was submitted for "Food/Beverage Service, Retail (Other), Hotel/Motel".
https://www.construction.com/projects/d ... oliday-inn

Is the valuation the cost of the pre-design or the entire project? If its the entire project cost the fact its only valued at $14 million doesn't instill much hope for a large, quality project. Deeply disappointing considering its on the streetcar line and on the Plaza no less. From Kimpton, to high-end apartments/shopping and now down to a small/cheap hotel. Fail!

^Pretty sure it's value of early phases, not entire project but it seems to vary by project. Some show entire valuation in early phases. And not even sure if this site is correct but they charge a pretty penny for the data and they do seem to get a lot of projects right.

Jesus. So this prime site is going from what would have been a high end hotel which failed then a to high rise tower that probably would have cost 100-200 million to a shitty 14 million dollar sprawl project that will probably include a motel and drive through restaurants by the sound of it. I mean the land needs to remain vacant. Another case of tearing shit down before you have a real plan to develop.