KCRag Forum

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:03 pm

phuqueue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:21 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:20 am NYC saw the police union claim 10,000 cops would walk out over the vaccine mandate

The local court upheld the requirement

The initial number: 34

Supposedly that stat is a little misleading, as 6500 cops still have pending applications for exemptions, so it remains to be seen how many might still walk out when their bullshit applications are inevitably rejected.

Most of them being submitted as religious exemptions, I’m interested to see if anyone has the gall to take up that fight, it’ll devolve into a 1st amendment constitutional fight for sure.

I imagine that the "religious" exemption requests are going to be rejected for anybody who can't show that they already belonged to an anti-vax sect. If you're just some Catholic cop from Long Island, you're going to have a hard time claiming religious exemption. The Supreme Court has been pretty amenable lately to supporting any right wing position that can be framed as "religious freedom," and you'll certainly never become poor betting on this Court to lean into the culture war, but that's still a real stretch (and in any case, the Supreme Court won't be the first to speak on this, they'll be the last, if they weigh in at all). Religious freedom in this country is expansive, but it is not and never has been absolute, and the lower courts that would hear these cases first will be bound to follow existing precedent, not whatever batshit reasoning Alito or Barrett or whoever would employ to reach their preordained determination when the case eventually came to them. I'm not surprised that dumbass cops think they can just wave "religion" around as a pretext, but courts have repeatedly sided against people who held sincere beliefs in cases where the public interest in enforcing a law outweighed the individual interest in exercising the particular belief, so it's hard to see someone getting very far arguing from a position that is clearly bullshit.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:15 pm ^There was a hospital in Arkansas that took an amusing approach for employees refusing vax that if your'e going to use the religious card based on stem cell research, then you are not allowed to take the couple dozen+ other common over counter drugs that came about due to stem cell research - most likely already do.

OTOH the White House is taking wrong approach with the 'mandate' terminology and could widely lose next mid-term and Pres spot due to approach. The White House should promote this as 'options', the option to take either vaccine or weekly testing. Not wise to use mandate term. If literally being required to shoot your body up with a drug with no options, that would imply the govt owns your body. But that' wasn't intent and easy to understand why the right and even indie moderates interpret it that way. The hardest pro-vaxrs would love to make it a true requirement with no options but Biden/WH are making a mistake not clearly making the optional distinction and are setting a path to lose the next two elections. And meanwhile based on WH 'mandate' term, many blue states/cities are making it a true mandate in some cases not understanding the Biden/WH intentions of 'options'. Generally, they are pushing it a bit too far with Fed employees, should be optional testing for existing Fed employees, required vax for newly hired is fine.

I think this is overthinking it. The Dems will be wiped out next year no matter what, the "mandate" doesn't really factor in. Their existing margins are too narrow, redistricting has introduced a new round of gerrymandering, the party in power usually loses seats anyway, etc, it was already set up to be a bloodbath either way. On the other hand, in 2024 they should be in decent shape if the pandemic is "over" (and depending on who the candidates are, whatever insane voting restrictions have been implemented, no new major catastrophes, etc) and they'll be annihilated if it isn't. Hard to imagine that having described the vax program as a "mandate" instead of an "option" in 2021 is still going to mean anything to anybody in 2024.

phuqueue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:21 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:20 am NYC saw the police union claim 10,000 cops would walk out over the vaccine mandate

The local court upheld the requirement

The initial number: 34

Supposedly that stat is a little misleading, as 6500 cops still have pending applications for exemptions, so it remains to be seen how many might still walk out when their bullshit applications are inevitably rejected.

I think the point is there weren't 10,000 cops willing to walk off immediately that very day. I'm sure the claim was purposefully exaggerated a bit but someone willing to wait in a queue isn't necessarily the type to give up their job. Half a percent is likely the number who seriously cares about the topic. I bet 90%+ who get denied get vaccinated asap.

Interesting quote

When thousands of people would rather die than continue existing in your system, it’s time to reevaluate your system.

flyingember wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:15 pm Interesting quote

When thousands of people would rather die than continue existing in your system, it’s time to reevaluate your system.

When thousands of people would rather die than continue existing in the imaginary system that exists in their head, it’s time to reevaluate the imaginary system in your head.

Fixed that for ya.

grovester wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:30 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:15 pm Interesting quote

When thousands of people would rather die than continue existing in your system, it’s time to reevaluate your system.

When thousands of people would rather die than continue existing in the imaginary system that exists in their head, it’s time to reevaluate the imaginary system in your head.

Fixed that for ya.

Do you really think that a lack of empathy works on this topic?

flyingember wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:59 am

grovester wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:30 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:15 pm Interesting quote

When thousands of people would rather die than continue existing in the imaginary system that exists in their head, it’s time to reevaluate the imaginary system in your head.

Fixed that for ya.

Do you really think that a lack of empathy works on this topic?

I'm as empathetic as the next person, but you can only do so much.

What part of the system are we going to change? The part where we use vaccines?

These folks don't think they're going to die, that's the whole point. They think the whole thing is a scamdemic.

If you're talking about changing the system to one where there is no disinformation for sway the masses, then I'm fully onboard.

No, we should be empathetic to the pain, the grief, the negativity and not give up.

If the system in their head is imaginary it’s possible to get through. Giving up in pessimism helps no one.

It's not a contradiction to be both empathetic and point out that their demons are imaginary.

grovester wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:54 am It's not a contradiction to be both empathetic and point out that their demons are imaginary.

In person it is.

Gov Kelly comes out against current administrations mandate. Who wants to take bets on this being because she’s concerned about re-election?

flyingember wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:48 pm

grovester wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:54 am It's not a contradiction to be both empathetic and point out that their demons are imaginary.

In person it is.

The irony of discussing self awareness with flying ember.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vacc ... als-court/

This will be fun to watch and hopefully a court will find the OSHA policy to be hot garbage.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:26 pm https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vacc ... als-court/

This will be fun to watch and hopefully a court will find the OSHA policy to be hot garbage.

Fun in the same way that watching death is fun.

In October, 25 out of every 100,000 residents of heavily Trump counties died from Covid, more than three times higher than the rate in heavily Biden counties (7.8 per 100,000). October was the fifth consecutive month that the percentage gap between the death rates in Trump counties and Biden counties widened.

Charles Gaba, a Democratic health care analyst, has pointed out that the gap is also evident at finer gradations of political analysis: Counties where Trump received at least 70 percent of the vote have an even higher average Covid death toll than counties where Trump won at least 60 percent.

The future of Covid is uncertain, but I do think it’s possible that the partisan gap in Covid deaths reached its peak last month. There are two main reasons to expect the gap may soon shrink.

One, the new antiviral treatments from Pfizer and Merck seem likely to reduce Covid deaths everywhere, and especially in the places where they are most common. These treatments, along with the vaccines, may eventually turn this coronavirus into just another manageable virus.

Two, red America has probably built up more natural immunity to Covid — from prior infections — than blue America, because the hostility to vaccination and social distancing has caused the virus to spread more widely. A buildup in natural immunity may be one reason that the partisan gap in new Covid cases has shrunk recently

.

Still, nobody knows what will happen next. Much of the recent decline in caseloads is mysterious, which means it may not last. And the immunity from vaccination appears to be much stronger than the immunity from infection, which means that conservative Americans will probably continue to suffer an outsized amount of unnecessary illness and death.

https://messaging-custom-newsletters.ny ... ed3d8d9541

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:09 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:26 pm https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vacc ... als-court/

This will be fun to watch and hopefully a court will find the OSHA policy to be hot garbage.

Fun in the same way that watching death is fun.

Virtue signaling hypocrisy. Stop it already. It's NOT cool.

im2kull wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:37 am

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:09 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:26 pm https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vacc ... als-court/

This will be fun to watch and hopefully a court will find the OSHA policy to be hot garbage.

Fun in the same way that watching death is fun.

Virtue signaling hypocrisy. Stop it already. It's NOT cool.

And your response is constructive how?

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:28 am

im2kull wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:37 am

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:09 pm

Fun in the same way that watching death is fun.

Virtue signaling hypocrisy. Stop it already. It's NOT cool.

And your response is constructive how?

Cutting out the BS benefits everyone, does it not? Sometimes you simply have to say "STOP IT".

im2kull wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:03 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:28 am

im2kull wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:37 am

Virtue signaling hypocrisy. Stop it already. It's NOT cool.

And your response is constructive how?

Cutting out the BS benefits everyone, does it not? Sometimes you simply have to say "STOP IT".

Like using reply all

The former FDA chief says that based on current trends he believes the COVID pandemic end is in sight.

https://www.axios.com/gottlieb-pandemic ... 2e6d2.html

That new Pfizer oral anti-viral drug that can be given at home to people suffering from infection and would keep them out to the hospital might be a major advancement that contributes a great deal.

https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-11-05/

Goonies wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:25 pm Member will still be virtue signaling about masks

I was in HyVee the other day after the mandate dropped. Was one of the ~40% not in a mask. I'll wear one if the store has a sign up still.

I hate them. Hate, hate, hate.

I scheduled my kids to be vaccinated for the first date that was available because I want to be done with them.

It's one reason we shouldn't give up on negative people on Covid. Because the longer it takes to get over this the longer masks stick around.

I have no interest in virtue signaling on masks and think anti-maskers and anti-vaccers are idiots. I'm was not going to nitpick someone choosing not to wear one except where it impacts little kids who until last week couldn't be vaccinated.

The youth program I run for that age, we have a full mask requirement. If you don't want to wear one, don't come inside. We piggyback offthe school district requirement. When they can drop their requirement we will go to voluntary.

When we're outside as a group, we don't require them because, from all the knowledge we have today, it would be stupid to require them then.