1650 Broadway

[FlippantCitizen]

There are yet more sites on Broadway for development/redevelopment. The public demanding better at every step is going be the only way to improve the pedestrian/urban environment. This design belongs in the suburbs or the sunbelt.

[earthling]

Think we're being overly critical given where this is. It's never going to be amazing urban space there. Hence "weird location" comment.

Yeah agree, it's fine for this location. Ideally would line up to block but not crucial in this location. Slick design otherwise.

[KCPowercat]

Think we're being overly critical given where this is. It's never going to be amazing urban space there. Hence "weird location" comment.

Respectfully disagree. I don't think this site necessarily needs to front the street in exactly the same way as 1400 Wyandotte, because you're right the environments are different. But minimizing blank walls, offering some sort of street facing activation, reducing obvious parking areas etc along Broadway is reasonable. Broadway will never be better if we just cast it off as a "weird area". It doesn't have to be weird! It can be good!

EDIT: Will also just add, this project seems alright. Just need some clarification on what's happening along the base is all.

Yeah I agree with you overall of course. I just feel like we're really jumping on this one and of all locations we should just be happy we're getting "something" there!

[FlippantCitizen]

This is just a render but it’s what I have to go on… and it shows the most massive auto plaza/circle drive situation and apparently a triple wide curb cut/garage entrance further down the block. I want something on this site too, the possibility of a tower is fantastic. But I won’t withhold my criticism of these obvious problems and this render shows where this team’s heads are at.

[KCPowercat]

A building this size with those uses is going to need entrances like that for the tenants to function. Especially given the road they are coming off on. Maybe that's a reason to NOT put this scale of building at this location when we have so many other sites that would work it better but this is what the land owners want there so it is what it is to some extent.

Criticize away, it's the only way we get anything better but I think we just need to have a little understanding as well.

[Jblanco]

Think we're being overly critical given where this is. It's never going to be amazing urban space there. Hence "weird location" comment.

Agree, based on this project being on an island against a freeway and exit I like it.
This will pull the skyline west in a cool way.

[NEgoofyfoot]

Even this Firms self proclaimed "Urban Design" is decidedly suburban https://hoeferwelker.com/urban-planning-design/

[FlippantCitizen]

The fact that there are more cars than people in the render is a tell

[Cratedigger]

A building this size with those uses is going to need entrances like that for the tenants to function. Especially given the road they are coming off on. Maybe that's a reason to NOT put this scale of building at this location when we have so many other sites that would work it better but this is what the land owners want there so it is what it is to some extent.

Criticize away, it's the only way we get anything better but I think we just need to have a little understanding as well.

100%

I do think there's room for improvement (can more vehicular traffic happen on Washington st instead so that Broadway can be more activated for pedestrians?) but this looks like a significant project

[KCPowercat]

Definitely would love any pedestrian improvement on this side of the PAC. Hopefully this comes together and includes some traffic calming elements to pull that together. Right now being on that side of Broadway you feel a lifetime away from the PAC directly across the street.

[KC_Ari]

Very Overland Park, but I don't dislike it. The primary garage entrance needs to be moved behind the building to Washington St and it could be brought closer to the curb. I understand the desire for a hotel vehicle turnaround. Otherwise the front seems fairly activated. Does the second tower abut Los Tules? It looks like there is retail space at it's base.

I expect them to also be waiting for the FAA verdict before progressing too far.

[moderne]

A hotel here would be closer to the convention center than an Embassy at the old Federal Reserve and can also service the Kauffman Center. As for being not very urban, the KCPA already made that anti urban mistake in its placement(its isolation, lobby not facing downtown, interruption of street grid). The island next to a freeway exit might appeal to office site decision makers who live in the burbs over a site in the heart of the loop or Crown Center. I just want the design to be a complimentary frame to the only 21st century architectural masterpiece we have downtown. If they want to build an enclosed ped bridge from the hotel to Bartle across the freeway, thats OK, but not one over Broadway to the KCPA.

[TheLastGentleman]

That section of Broadway needs to be changed into less of a trafficway before I care too much whether the new buildings on it are good urban stewards. Make Broadway Boulevard actually resemble either a “Broadway” or a “Boulevard” and then we can judge antiurban projects that flank it.

[Chris Stritzel]

I've had time to think over the plans a bit more and will share a better thought out opinion.



Firstly, good to see the idea visualized for once. Ever since I found those FAA applications a while back, I wondered how this will look. Happy to see no 150ft tall (or whatever it was) parking garage corner included in this initial round of plans. Zooming in on this image, I count 30-stories in the residential-hotel tower. I imagine if the FAA approves then 500ft tall/40-story version, the design will be pulled upwards more.

Regarding the street-level, I too wish that the retail was street side rather than setback, but I appreciate what they're trying to do with the street-level (then elevated) plaza for pedestrians. The elevation change there warrants something like that if you want a destination restaurant or something. The curb cuts are of concern, but they make sense. One for the parking garage and the other for hotel pick-up/drop-off/valet. With this supposed to be a fancy hotel, I doubt they (the hotelier) would sacrifice the driving circle. That's nothing that a little bit of lush landscaping can't fix.

Generally, I'm in favor of it but there is room for improvement. I would like for EPC/Hoefer Welker to reexamine the facade design of the tower. The office building can remain the same, but they should try to switch up the design of the tower some in order to be more iconic. With it set to be a prominent feature on the skyline, even if the FAA only approves the 350ft (pictured) version, it needs a more striking design. Keep the angles of the buildings, but try to push the retail up to Broadway.

Any future opinions I have on this plan I'll hold until we get better renderings and a more finalized plan. As I said earlier on, these is clearly early on and the final plan will likely change once the FAA approves, or disapproves, of the final plan. This plan will be subject to scrutiny by city officials and I'm sure EPC will be monitoring public response as more information and images come out.

[smh]

I think you all are really selling this stretch of Broadway short. Sure it backs up to I-35 so accommodation will be needed on that side, but the front frame the PAC, is a couple of blocks from the convention center and soon to be loop cap park. It is across the street from the Crossroads, just steps from a whole area full of great restaurants and bars. Just because Broadway is a traffic sewer today doesn't mean this building should support the status quo. We know there is a (now dated) plan for reimagining Broadway in Midtown, why not here as well with multiple new developments along this corridor. Re-prioritizing the street space to slow cars while creating more space for people is pretty cheap on the whole and certainly cheaper than us living with a College Blvd style development for the next forty years.

Even today people hangout on the patio of Los Tules, which I think goes to show that there is demand for a quality pedestrian realm in this stretch.

[im2kull]

BUILD IT NOW! Bunch of NIMBYs on here. I'll forgoe some street front activation for THOUSANDS of square feet of active retail, shopping, and dining with signature spaces and sky level public use areas any day in a real high-rise. We NEED to get some vertical elements growing in this city, STAT. We can't be NIMBYs when we're actually getting a real high-rise proposal, unless you want to have developers revert back to 8 floors of parking with 8 floors of private office space on top and a 200 SF streetside retail space??

[GRID]

With this location, I would rubber stamp this. I get some of the "it's not urban" complaints, but that location is pretty hard to do much more considering the highway, the convention center and the PAC. And the set backs of the design sort of compliments the PAC. I'm not sure you want something different there.

Not sure if this development will ever happen, but I think it's nice to finally even see proposals like this in KC. This and the tower next to P&L are pretty insane for KC. These types of renderings pop up all the time in other cities. It's nice to see KC finally getting there and developers are starting to think bigger.

I really wish something like this would go up east of grand though.

[beautyfromashes]

I think you all are really selling this stretch of Broadway short.

I understand your point of view, but I don't view this piece of property as connecting to anything, even with changing its streetfront. It's like complaining about sidewalks at the end of a one-way street. Even if you make it nice to walk there, you just are led to a highway exit under a convention center next to the loading dock/trash compactors. North of there is a noise tunnel with all the sound bouncing off the bottom of the convention center. So, people really should walk east past the PAC into DT instead of continuing north. They will make that connection good because it's their bread and butter. The hotel will gear to patrons of the PAC and walking from one to the other will likely be a high priority.

[smh]

To be clear, much like 1400 Wyandotte, I'm not saying don't build it. I'm saying let's make sure the ground floor is appropriate in an urban context. I expressed similar reservations re: 1400 Wyandotte and now after seeing the ground floor plan can feel confident that the project will add vibrancy to the block. But you really can't fault skepticism even at "this site" after we've been used and abused so many times in this city. Within the last month new parking meters were installed in the middle of the sidewalk, so forgive me if I am overly sensitive about the pedestrian environment. I don't trust City Hall to do anything to support folks moving around in anything other than a car.

[langosta]

To be clear, much like 1400 Wyandotte, I'm not saying don't build it. I'm saying let's make sure the ground floor is appropriate in an urban context. I expressed similar reservations re: 1400 Wyandotte and now after seeing the ground floor plan can feel confident that the project will add vibrancy to the block. But you really can't fault skepticism even at "this site" after we've been used and abused so many times in this city. Within the last month new parking meters were installed in the middle of the sidewalk, so forgive me if I am overly sensitive about the pedestrian environment. I don't trust City Hall to do anything to support folks moving around in anything other than a car.

Think you are letting good get in the way of perfect here.

Burns & mac ground-floor may have been a case of bad