Four Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Four Light

Post by earthling »

normalthings wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:22 pm
GRID wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:14 pm
earthling wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:47 pm Many will disagree but Armour and Main should have something like these at each 4 corners, which would also give Midtown KC an identity, provides both Plaza/Downtown views and could create a new power center along RCP corridor. Score an Urban Target at base of one of them and it might appease neighbors.

And note to Cordish.. completely different designs.
Those two towers would look absolutely amazing in place of 2 and 3 Light (which are boxes on top of parking boxes). They would also look great in Midtown. I agree, Midtown needs something like this to give it some identity.
STL has a leading university and med center to support the leasing of these towers and yet 100 has taken an extended lease up period. KC may not be able to support those levels of rent.
With a free fare streetcar along RCP corridor, it doesn't matter in KC's case. And it's halfway between. Add power center level retail/amenities at street level and it will have no issues filling up.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:13 pm
normalthings wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:22 pm
GRID wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:14 pm

Those two towers would look absolutely amazing in place of 2 and 3 Light (which are boxes on top of parking boxes). They would also look great in Midtown. I agree, Midtown needs something like this to give it some identity.
STL has a leading university and med center to support the leasing of these towers and yet 100 has taken an extended lease up period. KC may not be able to support those levels of rent.
With a free fare streetcar along RCP corridor, it doesn't matter in KC's case. And it's halfway between. Add power center level retail/amenities at street level and it will have no issues filling up.
What? One Hundred is walking distance to tens of thousands of high paying jobs.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Four Light

Post by earthling »

Am alluding to a longer term strategy. Also need to consider many higher end tenants are downsizers no longer working. And even so a decent job base is a free fare streetcar away, which is about as ideal as walking distance. It's OK to add more Light buildings but not hirises in Midtown?
Last edited by earthling on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Chris Stritzel
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Four Light

Post by Chris Stritzel »

normalthings wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:22 pm
STL has a leading university and med center to support the leasing of these towers and yet 100 has taken an extended lease up period. KC may not be able to support those levels of rent.
Three Light has higher rents per square foot than 100 and One Cardinal Way. It's likely KC could support this level of rent.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Four Light

Post by daGOAT »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:47 pm
normalthings wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:22 pm
STL has a leading university and med center to support the leasing of these towers and yet 100 has taken an extended lease up period. KC may not be able to support those levels of rent.
Three Light has higher rents per square foot than 100 and One Cardinal Way. It's likely KC could support this level of rent.
True, the Bird penthouse is 13k a month and is preleased almost two years in advance.
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Four Light

Post by AlkaliAxel »

earthling wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:47 pm Am alluding to a longer term strategy. Also need to consider many higher end tenants are downsizers no longer working. And even so a decent job base is a free fare streetcar away, which is about as ideal as walking distance. It's OK to add more Light buildings but not hirises in Midtown?
With Midtown I’d be more concerned about filling up all the surface lots with mid-rise and as much as we can get. Also filling up those empty store fronts as well. I’m just really skeptical of having the OKC problem where you have one really awkward huge skyscraper sticking out amongst small items.

Ftr I don’t think the STL apartments locations are very good. I’d rather have the synergy of it all downtown. I’d go as dense as possible with high rise to downtown, and just infill with more retail & walkability in Midtown and stick to the character of the neighborhood (which is basically Westport & stores)
User avatar
Chris Stritzel
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Four Light

Post by Chris Stritzel »

^Midtown KC would benefit from having some height, but not 1/2/3 Light, Albion, or One Hundred height. Things like Arterra and Reverb are ideal maximum heights to aim for between Crown Center and the Plaza as it's not too tall, but not too short. This is especially true for the Main and Broadway corridors where there are already some buildings up into the 10 floor or so range. Let the taller buildings rise in Downtown and the Plaza area where the precedents have already been set.

Also, Downtown KC and Central West End STL aren't really comparable. Both have their quirks and benefits. Both are lively and walkable with things like grocery stores, restaurants and bars just a short walk away, but both have issues with busy streets or a sunken highway. But the two start to differ once you look at the makeup of each neighborhood. Downtown KC is a mix of apartments, condos, lots of hotels, tons of office space, and retail and restaurant space spread out over basically four areas of concentration (River Market, Broadway, Power and Light District, Main-Southwest). Central West End STL is a mix of condos, apartments, expensive houses, three hotels, basically no office space, a large hospital complex, and retail and restaurant space concentrated heavily on Euclid rather than dotted around.
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Four Light

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:36 pm ^Midtown KC would benefit from having some height, but not 1/2/3 Light, Albion, or One Hundred height. Things like Arterra and Reverb are ideal maximum heights to aim for between Crown Center and the Plaza as it's not too tall, but not too short. This is especially true for the Main and Broadway corridors where there are already some buildings up into the 10 floor or so range. Let the taller buildings rise in Downtown and the Plaza area where the precedents have already been set.

Also, Downtown KC and Central West End STL aren't really comparable. Both have their quirks and benefits. Both are lively and walkable with things like grocery stores, restaurants and bars just a short walk away, but both have issues with busy streets or a sunken highway. But the two start to differ once you look at the makeup of each neighborhood. Downtown KC is a mix of apartments, condos, lots of hotels, tons of office space, and retail and restaurant space spread out over basically four areas of concentration (River Market, Broadway, Power and Light District, Main-Southwest). Central West End STL is a mix of condos, apartments, expensive houses, three hotels, basically no office space, a large hospital complex, and retail and restaurant space concentrated heavily on Euclid rather than dotted around.
I agree I think places like Reverb would be fine. What we really needs as places like Mac’s latest project that got killed.
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Four Light

Post by GRID »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:10 pm
Chris Stritzel wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:36 pm ^Midtown KC would benefit from having some height, but not 1/2/3 Light, Albion, or One Hundred height. Things like Arterra and Reverb are ideal maximum heights to aim for between Crown Center and the Plaza as it's not too tall, but not too short. This is especially true for the Main and Broadway corridors where there are already some buildings up into the 10 floor or so range. Let the taller buildings rise in Downtown and the Plaza area where the precedents have already been set.

Also, Downtown KC and Central West End STL aren't really comparable. Both have their quirks and benefits. Both are lively and walkable with things like grocery stores, restaurants and bars just a short walk away, but both have issues with busy streets or a sunken highway. But the two start to differ once you look at the makeup of each neighborhood. Downtown KC is a mix of apartments, condos, lots of hotels, tons of office space, and retail and restaurant space spread out over basically four areas of concentration (River Market, Broadway, Power and Light District, Main-Southwest). Central West End STL is a mix of condos, apartments, expensive houses, three hotels, basically no office space, a large hospital complex, and retail and restaurant space concentrated heavily on Euclid rather than dotted around.
I agree I think places like Reverb would be fine. What we really needs as places like Mac’s latest project that got killed.
Agree with that. That mac project is the exact type of project Main St needs. I'm just saying it would be nice if Midtown did get something like what's going up in CWE. Doesn't have to be as tall either. It would be nice, but a lot of things would be nice haha.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

just imagine this at the corner of 14th & Baltimore


https://www.4974lindell.com/#about

Image
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Four Light

Post by FangKC »

I'd be happy with it at 10th and Grand, or 12th and Grand as well.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Four Light

Post by earthling »

Vancouver has some of the most interesting buildings...
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
Chris Stritzel
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Four Light

Post by Chris Stritzel »

earthling wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:41 am Vancouver has some of the most interesting buildings...

Image
I have a problem with this one. Doesn’t look right.
User avatar
FlippantCitizen
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:29 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Four Light

Post by FlippantCitizen »

I would love to see a Vancouver style tower DT. Something like a 6-8 story brick pedestal with maisonettes and street level retail and more modern looking tower on top.
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Four Light

Post by AlkaliAxel »

What about that parking lot with the theatre on Main St.?
User avatar
Karambit25
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:10 am

Re: Four Light

Post by Karambit25 »

You know a location that I've always thought would be a great place for highrise residential?

31st and Main. Northern views toward downtown and southern views toward the Plaza.
With the streetcar addition, If you consider the best location you're at 31st and Main. For some reason this intersection has been bypassed while Gillham to the East has seen all of the new development.
31st and Main is the epicenter of urban KC, 5 minutes to the heart of downtown and 7 minutes to the heart of the Plaza. A highrise there would be a part of the greater downtown skyline but would also dominate the northern view from the Plaza. Just a thought.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Four Light

Post by FangKC »

I agree with you. I think that site will get developed at some point.
User avatar
Cratedigger
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:32 pm

Re: Four Light

Post by Cratedigger »

Karambit25 wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:35 pm You know a location that I've always thought would be a great place for highrise residential?

31st and Main. Northern views toward downtown and southern views toward the Plaza.
With the streetcar addition, If you consider the best location you're at 31st and Main. For some reason this intersection has been bypassed while Gillham to the East has seen all of the new development.
31st and Main is the epicenter of urban KC, 5 minutes to the heart of downtown and 7 minutes to the heart of the Plaza. A highrise there would be a part of the greater downtown skyline but would also dominate the northern view from the Plaza. Just a thought.
The view from the former BMA Tower at 31st and SW Trafficway is one of my favorites in the city
Last edited by Cratedigger on Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
kboish
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3258
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: West Plaza

Re: Four Light

Post by kboish »

The view from the Netherlands (39th/Main) is pretty great as well. They have a rooftop bar.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 3730
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Four Light

Post by DColeKC »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:12 pm What about that parking lot with the theatre on Main St.?
Future 4 or 5 light location. Still planned to be a residential and hotel combo.
Post Reply