1822 Main Redevlopment

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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grovester
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by grovester »

Indeed, who cares?
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by beautyfromashes »

Why are there no windows facing the street?! It’s like the building is literally turning it’s back to Main St. to just look DT.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by langosta »

flyingember wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:51 pm
taxi wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:20 am That is likely the most pathetic rendering I have ever seen. Looks like a blind 3rd grader made it. If that is any indication of the quality we will see on this project, it will be bleak.
And there's a good chance someone is going to fall off of that balcony. I hope it is the person who did the rendering.
Not necessarily. Remember that renderings cost money because someone needs to prepare the environment. Notice there's no neighboring buildings. A company that negotiates down their fee is going to get less quality in places it's easy to cut, like this.

And a company running software so old this is the default is going to be cheap to hire. Doesn't mean they're not skilled, it's more is a reflection on their software age. With the number of programs moving to the subscription model they may be using really old software on purpose.

A developer is also going to care more on elevation guides and the site layout since they need both to get approvals and permits. This is just about showing the massing. Who cares if it's detailed.
I plugged the City Scene Image into a modern program and rendered it out below. I took the liberty of adding windows to the front as I suspect that’s what the dark grey polygon represented.

Image
Image

A modern design/render program, good material selection, and detailing bump the design up 1,000%+. Even the 2-3 floor garage facade could end up looking nice if the right materials and design are selected. My main complaints of 1. too much parking 2. TIF for relocating a KCMO firm 3. car hole on main stay the same.
Last edited by langosta on Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by DaveKCMO »

beautyfromashes wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:55 pm Why are there no windows facing the street?! It’s like the building is literally turning it’s back to Main St. to just look DT.
PortKC confirms the entire first floor is windows (except, of course, the garage entrance).

Also: EVERYONE CALM DOWN THIS IS JUST A MASSING AND NOT A FINAL RENDERING.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by jasty5 »

Tried to warn you guys... agreed with DAVE, this is just to show the massing.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by kcmiz »

The Council should strongly consider banning any further curb cuts on Main St. from River Market to 51st. If they truly want the core to be more pedestrian friendly, push curb cuts to numbered streets or alley ways.

In Manhattan (walkers paradise), the Avenues and Broadway are the main retail corridors. Part of what makes this really effective is the lack of curb cuts (cannot think of one). That’s not to say there are no parking garages. They’re everywhere, but the entrances are mostly on the residential side streets.
Last edited by kcmiz on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chaglang
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by chaglang »

flyingember wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:51 pm
taxi wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:20 am That is likely the most pathetic rendering I have ever seen. Looks like a blind 3rd grader made it. If that is any indication of the quality we will see on this project, it will be bleak.
And there's a good chance someone is going to fall off of that balcony. I hope it is the person who did the rendering.
Not necessarily. Remember that renderings cost money because someone needs to prepare the environment. Notice there's no neighboring buildings.
Just for future reference you can build all this (including surrounding buildings) in Sketchup, run it through Enscape and then Photoshop some entourage in, and have the whole thing done in a morning. Passable photorealistic renderings are very very cheap and fast now.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by DaveKCMO »

kcmiz wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:08 pm The Council should strongly consider banning any further curb cuts on Main St. from River Market to 51st. If they truly want the core to be more pedestrian friendly, push curb cuts to numbered streets or alley ways.

In Manhattan (walkers paradise), the Avenues and Broadway are the main retail corridors. Part of what makes this really effective is the lack of curb cuts (cannot think of one). That’s not to say there are no parking garages. They’re everywhere, but the entrances are mostly on the residential side streets.
No need for the council to weigh in. They'd fuck it up anyway. Behind the scenes lobbying in effect.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by kcmiz »

DaveKCMO wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:17 pm
kcmiz wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:08 pm The Council should strongly consider banning any further curb cuts on Main St. from River Market to 51st. If they truly want the core to be more pedestrian friendly, push curb cuts to numbered streets or alley ways.

In Manhattan (walkers paradise), the Avenues and Broadway are the main retail corridors. Part of what makes this really effective is the lack of curb cuts (cannot think of one). That’s not to say there are no parking garages. They’re everywhere, but the entrances are mostly on the residential side streets.
No need for the council to weigh in. They'd fuck it up anyway. Behind the scenes lobbying in effect.
Hero! =D>
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:54 pm Also: EVERYONE CALM DOWN THIS IS JUST A MASSING AND NOT A FINAL RENDERING.
So, what exactly did PortKC approve? Since they’re the developer, city council won’t get a vote to approve or reject. This could get fast tracked and sentiment towards design should be given now so they know the thoughts of the public.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by Midtownkid »

The old bank facade would at least make a nice entry to the building. Man this thing is ugly.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by langosta »

chaglang wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:16 pm
flyingember wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:51 pm
taxi wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:20 am That is likely the most pathetic rendering I have ever seen. Looks like a blind 3rd grader made it. If that is any indication of the quality we will see on this project, it will be bleak.
And there's a good chance someone is going to fall off of that balcony. I hope it is the person who did the rendering.
Not necessarily. Remember that renderings cost money because someone needs to prepare the environment. Notice there's no neighboring buildings.
Just for future reference you can build all this (including surrounding buildings) in Sketchup, run it through Enscape and then Photoshop some entourage in, and have the whole thing done in a morning. Passable photorealistic renderings are very very cheap and fast now.
Lumion or Enscape aren’t even required. You can use a free render engine and achieve a passable photo realistic effect.

The rendering is “bad” because they purposely do not want to show much detail in regards to the material selection.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by FangKC »

Midtownkid wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:54 pm The old bank facade would at least make a nice entry to the building. Man this thing is ugly.
I wish the City/various authorities would also make incentives more contingent on saving and incorporating historic facades--in those cases where the entire building is not being re-used in the project. For example, it would be something that could be traded for a removal of/increase in the incentive cap. That isn't that big of a facade, and I can't imagine it would be that hard to re-use it.

Dave, lobby for that too.
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normalthings
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by normalthings »

The current curb cut serves maybe 20 spots that are rarely used. The new curb cut will service 120 spots used everyday. It seems to me that one shouldn’t be allowed to automatically keep their curb cut if they are significantly boosting their daily traffic.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by wahoowa »

they've got syngenta class action money what the hell do they need tif for
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by DaveKCMO »

FangKC wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:03 pm
Midtownkid wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:54 pm The old bank facade would at least make a nice entry to the building. Man this thing is ugly.
I wish the City/various authorities would also make incentives more contingent on saving and incorporating historic facades--in those cases where the entire building is not being re-used in the project. For example, it would be something that could be traded for a removal of/increase in the incentive cap. That isn't that big of a facade, and I can't imagine it would be that hard to re-use it.

Dave, lobby for that too.
Sorry. Form matters most to me (right after tearing anything down for surface parking).
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by TrolliKC »

The street car line doesn't help attorneys travel from Kansas nor their clients, which is why the parking. Horrible about the facade
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normalthings
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by normalthings »

StrongTowns has picked this project up. (They arent fans)
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by earthling »

The City needs to do something to encourage higher quality developments along the streetcar line. At least setup guidelines like no garage access from Main (from the side or back streets) and no blank walls along Main. Something along those lines. Seattle once required retail spaces for certain districts. The space could be used for storage/conf rooms/lobby area until market conditions right for retail.
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Re: 1822 Main Redevlopment

Post by moderne »

Historic KC is asking to put bank on register and calling for bank bldng to be preserved.
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