KCRag Forum

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:26 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:19 pm Name a few? I'm not saying Cordish is so great people should come begging to hand them money for a space. I'm sure the price difference between some spots in the crossroads and PNL is sizable.

This is the point. Maybe, you're overestimating what the difference in cost should be for the two.

I have no idea or concern in what the price difference is between the two. I can just imagine rent in and around the crossroads is different than PNL. I can also assume that many companies prefer the vibe of the crossroads over PNL.

I also understand how on the outside looking in, it's easy to be critical of empty spaces or using an empty space for some other use until it's leased. However I've known Chelsea, the main leasing agent for a decade and I know she works her tail off pitching spaces, working with folks that are interested and even browsing these types of online sources for ideas they haven't thought of. I've seen her giant white board with a ton of local and national brands that she's talked to and stays in touch with. Like Hawaiian Brothers, Longboards and national operators. For example, the operators behind County Road didn't come to Cordish, Cordish went to them and actually paired them up. Back Napkin and Joes BBQ.

People seem to forget this place was built with growth in mind. No one thought it would be 100% leased in a few years. When Strata was announced, that made the 13th street locations more desirable. When 4L is announced, that could make the Zafar and alley retail spaces more desirable.

Anyway, we should probably get back to the proper topic, so I'll stop responding! Just know that they work very hard to get these places leased up. If you see an empty spot, it's not because it wasn't been walked dozens and dozens of times with prospective clients.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:26 pm My point was I walk all those streets on a regular basis. 14th in no way gets more east of Main (which is the spaces we are talking about).

95% leased...what % of that is Cordish leasing back to itself or JE DUnn? That number that was always thrown around always seemed lofty and after this discussion I know why. Let's lease that space to operations for a $1 a month, count it in the leased %!

That's not how it works. Regardless of who rents it, market rate is paid. The maintenance shop and JE Dunn space is the only spaces like this. The office out of the 2nd floor of One Light and shocker, pay market rate for the office space. You could have taken those two spaces off the board and still been at 95%.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing, a full and successful district that adds amenities and draws in visitors.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:39 pm I also understand how on the outside looking in, it's easy to be critical of empty spaces or using an empty space for some other use until it's leased. However I've known Chelsea, the main leasing agent for a decade and I know she works her tail off pitching spaces, working with folks that are interested and even browsing these types of online sources for ideas they haven't thought of... Just know that they work very hard to get these places leased up. If you see an empty spot, it's not because it wasn't been walked dozens and dozens of times with prospective clients.

Then Chelsea is making the wrong pitch to the wrong people. Instead of trying to get an interested market of businesses to buy an overpriced rental product, she needs to make an internal sale to the higher ups at Cordish to drop their prices. Until she does that, it's a waste of time. I'm sure she knows that though.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:09 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:39 pm I also understand how on the outside looking in, it's easy to be critical of empty spaces or using an empty space for some other use until it's leased. However I've known Chelsea, the main leasing agent for a decade and I know she works her tail off pitching spaces, working with folks that are interested and even browsing these types of online sources for ideas they haven't thought of... Just know that they work very hard to get these places leased up. If you see an empty spot, it's not because it wasn't been walked dozens and dozens of times with prospective clients.

Then Chelsea is making the wrong pitch to the wrong people. Instead of trying to get an interested market of businesses to buy an overpriced rental product, she needs to make an internal sale to the higher ups at Cordish to drop their prices. Until she does that, it's a waste of time. I'm sure she knows that though.

I guess I'm confused as to why people think Cordish rents are not flexible? Sure, they want market rate but can get creative on a rev split with lower monthly rent or other various leasing tactics that are common. There are a few tenants that wouldn't be here if not for Cordish being willing to work with them. I know I mentioned Crossroads Vs PNL rental rates earlier, but I didn't mean to imply that's likely the biggest factor in tenants picking between the two.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:32 pm I guess I'm confused as to why people think Cordish rents are not flexible? Sure, they want market rate but can get creative on a rev split with lower monthly rent or other various leasing tactics that are common. There are a few tenants that wouldn't be here if not for Cordish being willing to work with them. I know I mentioned Crossroads Vs PNL rental rates earlier, but I didn't mean to imply that's likely the biggest factor in tenants picking between the two.

Has any business taken a percentage of revenue that has been in the district long term?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:07 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:32 pm I guess I'm confused as to why people think Cordish rents are not flexible? Sure, they want market rate but can get creative on a rev split with lower monthly rent or other various leasing tactics that are common. There are a few tenants that wouldn't be here if not for Cordish being willing to work with them. I know I mentioned Crossroads Vs PNL rental rates earlier, but I didn't mean to imply that's likely the biggest factor in tenants picking between the two.

Has any business taken a percentage of revenue that has been in the district long term?

Isn't percentage rent pretty common?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:07 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:32 pm I guess I'm confused as to why people think Cordish rents are not flexible? Sure, they want market rate but can get creative on a rev split with lower monthly rent or other various leasing tactics that are common. There are a few tenants that wouldn't be here if not for Cordish being willing to work with them. I know I mentioned Crossroads Vs PNL rental rates earlier, but I didn't mean to imply that's likely the biggest factor in tenants picking between the two.

Has any business taken a percentage of revenue that has been in the district long term?

Almost every lease has a revenue split in it if the tenant hits certain numbers including the grocery store. What I'm saying is that in certain circumstances, monthly rent was lowered in favor of either a higher cut to the landlord or lowering the bar as to when the landlord starts getting a percentage.

I'm sure in good years the landlord got the extra cash.

smh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:32 pm Isn't percentage rent pretty common?

Not in places I’ve seen. It might be the case in larger cities or places likes hotels.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:51 pm

smh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:32 pm Isn't percentage rent pretty common?

Not in places I’ve seen. It might be the case in larger cities or places likes hotels.

Interesting! It was one of the first things taught in this real estate investments class I'm taking.

Rabble wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:51 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:43 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:13 pm

How is this helpful to any discussion?

It's just as helpful as calling the place I live a "stick built, fake exterior roof top pool private party zone crap" and acting like the 300+ million dollars invested into new apartment buildings downtown is somehow spoiling or damaging the DT neighborhood.

Just sounds like he's jealous or selfish, or both.

Maybe too harsh but not jealous. What I like about downtowns is the party is on street and everyone is invited. The greatest amenity in the world is walking a downtown street.

Also, Two Light and the future 3 Light are not stick built, they are solid reinforced concrete buildings that will last for generations. Yes, they both have or will have, 8th floor party floors that cater to those with a lot of money. Nothing wrong here, we should all want our rich showing off their riches downtown instead of in Leawood or Mission Hills.

And it is highly possible for wood frame construction to be used in wonderfully urban ways. I'm sure there are world travelers on this blog that could give great examples. My problem is the wood frame developments that are being built in our downtown are no different what's built in our suburbs.

Hanging out by an inner courtyard pool is not urban. We need to educate people that if you're moving downtown you don't need a pool. It's OK not to have a perfect tan when you're downtown. Save money by avoiding that amenity and hopefully developers will take notice.

smh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:12 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:51 pm

smh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:32 pm Isn't percentage rent pretty common?

Not in places I’ve seen. It might be the case in larger cities or places likes hotels.

Interesting! It was one of the first things taught in this real estate investments class I'm taking.

I do a lot of corporate real estate work all across the country, percentage rent is extremely common on businesses that have consistent revenue-streams (i.e. big box, grocery, anchor tenants in strip centers, hotels, etc). Definitely not just limited to larger cities.

Had a meeting a few days ago with the project manager for this. I never would have thought micro-units would be so complicated but you can imagine the fact that every single inch of space counts. They're looking at some higher end functional furniture that works in these units. I think they'll have to include the beds or bed frame at a minimum to make the spaces work. These are going to be some great small units for folks wanting to get into the downtown market without the luxury price tag.

^There are examples of micro apt design in first couple pages of this thread. This is a highly efficient one...


Hire an experienced micro apt interior designer, perhaps from Japan as they have some of the most efficient designs I've seen.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:07 pm ^There are examples of micro apt design in first couple pages of this thread. This is a highly efficient one...


Hire an experienced micro apt interior designer, perhaps from Japan as they have some of the most efficient designs I've seen.

I’ve lived in a tiny apartment in HK which was maybe 200 sqft. It can be quite a shock initially but if you design well it’s actually really nice. Of course I doubt these would be anywhere near that small

Yeah and efficient design doesn't have to be costly, just very well thought out. RV design principals can also be applied. IE I've seen some RV/trailer tiny fiberglass bathrooms, entirely open where the toilet is essentially part of the shower. You can actually use the shower head on long hose to wash/rinse entire bathroom including sink/mirror - water tight drawers under sink. And close the toilet lid as place to sit when taking shower. It doesn't have to be costly, just well thought out.

https://www.helixkc.com/project/the-mid ... evelopment

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:07 pm ^There are examples of micro apt design in first couple pages of this thread. This is a highly efficient one...


Hire an experienced micro apt interior designer, perhaps from Japan as they have some of the most efficient designs I've seen.

While not from Japan, that’s basically what they’re doing. Getting bids from a few companies that specialize in micro apartment interiors.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:51 pm Had a meeting a few days ago with the project manager for this. I never would have thought micro-units would be so complicated but you can imagine the fact that every single inch of space counts. They're looking at some higher end functional furniture that works in these units. I think they'll have to include the beds or bed frame at a minimum to make the spaces work. These are going to be some great small units for folks wanting to get into the downtown market without the luxury price tag.

If only there was a very large housing market in the US that specializes in this type of thing...

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos- ... e-stairs-2

I lived for at least six years in a 390 sq. ft. studio apartment on New York's Upper East Size. I never minded it. It was a luxury to be able to live alone in Manhattan after having two roommate situations there. I really only slept there because I was working a lot, and went out many nights of the week.