Hotel Overbuilding?

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normalthings
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

Post by normalthings »

Link2 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:44 pm
earthling wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:35 am ^If Bravo is fully privately financed. Getting incentives have and probably will still fail. There are thousands of rooms in pipeline closer to reality that have a higher chance of completing.
Hotel Bravo has been and remains alive -- if you ask the developers. But their continued insistence of public funds to make the project viable is not a winning argument.

We'll see if projects on life-support (Hyatt House, Embassy Suites, etc.) gather some momentum related to the WC2026 announcement.

The count I have has the metro right around 35,800 in supply at the moment, with another 4,100 to be added according to announced projects. Now we of course know some of those projects will not actually happen, but others will be added in the near term (those speculative projects without a ton of concrete info that I do not count with my tracking figures).
No it’s not. One of the developer straight up sold his house in KC and left to the metro.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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With labor shortages/rising fares impacting air travel and fuel prices impacting road travel along with general inflation, there might be another travel slowdown to some degree. Concert tours improving but not really back to normal.

Downtown organizers could look into promoting downtown Staycations to metro area and organize mini events for weekends that aren't too expensive/involved to throw together. Such as shutting off 14th/P&L and Grand/Crown Center for small weekend events that target metro draw, family events too. Hotels might offer discounts for those in metro counties on lightly booked weekends.

The loss of First Friday's street party needs to be offset with some other events intended for metro draw.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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US hotel occupancy trending back down, likely due to rising fuel prices, general inflation and air travel challenges.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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earthling wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:23 am US hotel occupancy trending back down, likely due to rising fuel prices, general inflation and air travel challenges.
Extremely strong dollar likely hurting travel here from other parts of the world and making travel in Europe affordable.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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How does DTKC not have a Moxy yet? Would be a great fit with the obvious need for more hotel rooms by 2026.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:39 pm How does DTKC not have a Moxy yet? Would be a great fit with the obvious need for more hotel rooms by 2026.
I am aware of a Moxy that was close to being announced in 2021 but is now dead. Developer group from outside KC.

There is uncertainty still with return of conventions,etc and KC isn’t incentivizing new construction hotels. 1-2 weeks of 100% occupancy (WC) doesn’t move the needle as much as some may think.

In terms of WC and conventions, the more committable rooms the better. Though the City can’t incentivize a hotel greater than 350 rooms downtown iirc for a while. 100 room boutiques are cool but not moving the needle. A 5 star hotel would be beneficial for WC and the convention business.

My dream (not realistic) is that we gut the Crown Center hotels which are falling far behind. Construct a sizable expansion to Loews or a 600+ room standalone hotel near CC by 2032 (I was shown renderings of such a project. now dead). Icing on the cake would be a 250 room 5 star hotel.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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normalthings wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:45 pm
daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:39 pm How does DTKC not have a Moxy yet? Would be a great fit with the obvious need for more hotel rooms by 2026.
I am aware of a Moxy that was close to being announced in 2021 but is now dead. Developer group from outside KC.

There is uncertainty still with return of conventions,etc and KC isn’t incentivizing new construction hotels. 1-2 weeks of 100% occupancy (WC) doesn’t move the needle as much as some may think.

In terms of WC and conventions, the more committable rooms the better. Though the City can’t incentivize a hotel greater than 350 rooms downtown iirc for a while. 100 room boutiques are cool but not moving the needle. A 5 star hotel would be beneficial for WC and the convention business.

My dream (not realistic) is that we gut the Crown Center hotels which are falling far behind. Construct a sizable expansion to Loews or a 600+ room standalone hotel near CC by 2032 (I was shown renderings of such a project. now dead). Icing on the cake would be a 250 room 5 star hotel.
A Moxy and a Freehand (the latter being a pipedream) would have success because their not contingent on convention or business crowds but more so people just trying to party, which Kansas City is pretty good at lol.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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I have an idea for a very special hotel that I'll start working on soon. Won't go into details, but it would be entirely unique and unlike anything really seen here. Not skyline changing or anything but would be built to be a dynamic meeting place and neighborhood hub while also providing guests with a relaxing experience. It would be geared towards a wide range of guests. I have a name, site, and design style already chosen for it and it's uniquely Kansas City. I can see it now. But first, let me buy the site.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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daGOAT wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:39 am
normalthings wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:45 pm
daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:39 pm How does DTKC not have a Moxy yet? Would be a great fit with the obvious need for more hotel rooms by 2026.
I am aware of a Moxy that was close to being announced in 2021 but is now dead. Developer group from outside KC.

There is uncertainty still with return of conventions,etc and KC isn’t incentivizing new construction hotels. 1-2 weeks of 100% occupancy (WC) doesn’t move the needle as much as some may think.

In terms of WC and conventions, the more committable rooms the better. Though the City can’t incentivize a hotel greater than 350 rooms downtown iirc for a while. 100 room boutiques are cool but not moving the needle. A 5 star hotel would be beneficial for WC and the convention business.

My dream (not realistic) is that we gut the Crown Center hotels which are falling far behind. Construct a sizable expansion to Loews or a 600+ room standalone hotel near CC by 2032 (I was shown renderings of such a project. now dead). Icing on the cake would be a 250 room 5 star hotel.
A Moxy and a Freehand (the latter being a pipedream) would have success because their not contingent on convention or business crowds but more so people just trying to party, which Kansas City is pretty good at lol.
Bring back FF parties if that’s the goal
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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According to this a largish Moxy is proposed in KC with 247 rooms. No location, timeline or developer disclosed. KC has more hotel rooms in pipeline than all other Midwest cities outside Chicago and with the still uneven times, certain ones won't happen for a while. World Cup might nudge a few that have been on the fence. Also expect KC stock of AirBNB rooms/places to kick up during WC, a good way to add temp supply.

https://www.nmrk.com/storage-nmrk/uploa ... eports.pdf

Is also time for a modern hostel and/or a Pod hotel with hyper efficient micro rooms, toilet is within the shower. The truly adventurous just want a bed, don't care about room size or even privacy but do want modern. Some co-working offices are starting to include a floor dedicated to hostel/dorm style short term stays, great for digital nomads.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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earthling wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:50 am According to this a largish Moxy is proposed in KC with 247 rooms. No location, timeline or developer disclosed. KC has more hotel rooms in pipeline than all other Midwest cities outside Chicago and with the still uneven times, certain ones won't happen for a while. World Cup might nudge a few that have been on the fence. Also expect KC stock of AirBNB rooms/places to kick up during WC, a good way to add temp supply.

https://www.nmrk.com/storage-nmrk/uploa ... eports.pdf

Is also time for a modern hostel and/or a Pod hotel with hyper efficient micro rooms, toilet is within the shower. The truly adventurous just want a bed, don't care about room size or even privacy but do want modern. Some co-working offices are starting to include a floor dedicated to hostel/dorm style short term stays, great for digital nomads.
I've used hostels in Chicago and Los Angeles and it was great for networking and budgeting. The Freehand LA has a decent amount of space for shared co-ed rooms mixed with private rooms and an extremely popular rooftop pool and bar that's open to the public, it would be a great get for Kansas City to have something along those lines.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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earthling wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:50 am According to this a largish Moxy is proposed in KC with 247 rooms. No location, timeline or developer disclosed. KC has more hotel rooms in pipeline than all other Midwest cities outside Chicago and with the still uneven times, certain ones won't happen for a while. World Cup might nudge a few that have been on the fence. Also expect KC stock of AirBNB rooms/places to kick up during WC, a good way to add temp supply.

https://www.nmrk.com/storage-nmrk/uploa ... eports.pdf

Is also time for a modern hostel and/or a Pod hotel with hyper efficient micro rooms, toilet is within the shower. The truly adventurous just want a bed, don't care about room size or even privacy but do want modern. Some co-working offices are starting to include a floor dedicated to hostel/dorm style short term stays, great for digital nomads.
I think that’s the one I know of which is dead
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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We have a local moxy for the party hotel angle. It's crossroads hotel but I'm sure Marriott hq would love to hear how they have made a brand people think is a "get" to have a small room hotel
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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I get quarterly reports from a privately held hotel operator I'm engaged in (private equity). Can't post them as they are confidential but what it discusses is the approach hotels are taking to not actually desire getting staffing up to 2019 levels. As long as guests expectations are lower for services, hotel operators are taking advantage of that for profits for better/worse. Many guests no longer expect or even want daily house cleaning for example.

Not sure how long that can last but the lower staffing isn't just about tight labor markets, it's also that many hotels can get away with lower staff in order to profit and learning to function leaner than ever. At least for now. The reason economy hotels are higher returned below is because they typically didn't have much staff to begin with.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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earthling wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:45 am I get quarterly reports from a privately held hotel operator I'm engaged in (private equity). Can't post them as they are confidential but what it discusses is the approach hotels are taking to not actually desire getting staffing up to 2019 levels. As long as guests expectations are lower for services, hotel operators are taking advantage of that for profits for better/worse. Many guests no longer expect or even want daily house cleaning for example.

Not sure how long that can last but the lower staffing isn't just about tight labor markets, it's also that many hotels can get away with lower staff in order to profit and learning to function leaner than ever. At least for now. The reason economy hotels are higher returned below is because they typically didn't have much staff to begin with.
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Read unionized hotels not ok with this change. Will impact bigger city hotels negatively Im sure
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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normalthings wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:42 pm Read unionized hotels not ok with this change. Will impact bigger city hotels negatively Im sure
Yeah not sure how long this can last but it's apparently a common approach when possible now that hotels are getting a feel for how to operate as lean as possible. The pandemic was the ultimate stress test. As guest demands/expectations change, staffing will have to as well. However technology does allow for less staff interaction and hotels are exploring that, learning from how some AirBNB operators use tech for low if any face-to-face interaction.

We may start seeing many more hotels where you don't even need to see staff to check in or ever on visit if you choose to. Investors would love this as staff is the most expensive resource to operate a hotel. Guest expectations will likely determine where this goes per hotel category.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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National hotel occupancy. In 2019 the increasing summer pattern continued on after holiday surge. Gas prices/inflation probably part of drop this summer.

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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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World Cup planners aren't expecting a room shortage issue for KC area. And they aren't even factoring local AirBnB, which will probably have extra stock around that time.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... acity.html
Despite the crush for rooms caused by the World Cup, Rose does not expect any hotels to be built specifically for a one-off event.
Not specific to event but any in pipeline that are on the fence about triggering a project might be influenced by WC hype to go for it.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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earthling wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:18 pm Not specific to event but any in pipeline that are on the fence about triggering a project might be influenced by WC hype to go for it.
And I think what would also help tip this is if the Royals can announce a downtown stadium this year.
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Re: Hotel Overbuilding?

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National recent stats. KC details should be coming soon.

Tourist markets dong well. Some Midwest markets seem to be struggling relatively more than others. Houston, MSP and Pittsburgh low occupancy for Q2, possibly due to lower biz travel than normal.
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Hotel closures improving but still thousands closed according to Hotel Compete...
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Hotel Complete/Kalibri Labs also show improvement in room closures but still at least a couple 100K rooms closed...
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