Plaza Residential Development
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
^ They don’t care about affordable housing or the profit. They want high end houses for doctors they are recruiting or who come to the hospital for a short period of time on residency. They want to also positively increase the massive amount of property they have in the vacinity by showing comps. I’m happy they are doing it instead of tearing down for parking like they have for decades. Perhaps, they have turned the corner from hoarding property to developing property.
- FangKC
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
The problem with your argument is that doctors who come for a short period during residency are not going to buy houses. Residents probably aren't in the financial position to buy $600,000 houses. You almost always lose money selling a house five years after you buy it, unless you live in a hyper-expensive market.
Opinion
I’m a Doctor and Even I Can’t Afford My Student Loans
When the highest earners struggle with the cost of education, the nation needs to get serious about the problem.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/opin ... octor.html
https://agoodlifemd.com/medicines-money ... at-emptor/
https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2018/06/ne ... ouses.html
Of course there are exceptions. You left college deft free because your parents could afford to send your through medical school, and/or you know you will live permanently in the city you are doing your residency in, because your family lives there, and/or your parents loan you the downpayment.
Opinion
I’m a Doctor and Even I Can’t Afford My Student Loans
When the highest earners struggle with the cost of education, the nation needs to get serious about the problem.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/opin ... octor.html
https://agoodlifemd.com/medicines-money ... at-emptor/
https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2018/06/ne ... ouses.html
Of course there are exceptions. You left college deft free because your parents could afford to send your through medical school, and/or you know you will live permanently in the city you are doing your residency in, because your family lives there, and/or your parents loan you the downpayment.
Last edited by FangKC on Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
I think you seriously underestimate the amount of work and costs required to renovate some of these homes. At some point so much of a house needs to be replaced that it makes more sense to start over.FangKC wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:54 pm Keep in mind Alejandro that they got all the houses for free -- donated to the hospital foundation. The only cost to renovate would be the labor and materials. If you put $60,000-$80,000 into the rehab, you could still slap a 10 percent profit on top, sell them, and they would still be considered affordable housing. They are a foundation, so they aren't paying any taxes either.
The lower-paid hospital employees are the ones most likely to already live close by and the most likely to use transit daily. It’s the doctors, surgeons, rns, etc makeing $$$$ who are much more likely to live out at 135th street or even the legit country side and commute in everyday in their Escalades. These housing redevelopments will appeal to their highest paid employees - the ones who also have the greatest carbon foot print due to suburban living and driving.I'm sure there are plenty of the lower-paid hospital employees (nurses, nurses aides, janitors, cafeteria workers, records clerks, etc.) who don't earn huge salaries, but would love to be able to buy an affordable house within walking distance of their job. For some, it might mean they don't have to have a car, or at least wouldn't have to pay as much for gas to get to work.
The mayor pledged to still try and adhere to the Paris Climate accords. That means asking big employers to reduce their carbon footprint. Not tearing down existing houses they own does that, as well as providing housing for employees where they don't have to drive to work.
- FangKC
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Keep in mind, the 33 houses slated for demolition are houses that have had/or have people renting them now, so they must be minimally habitable.
One of my best friends is a house flipper. I'm going on what he usually puts into a house to sell it. He buys what I consider to be some really run-down, derelict houses. The type with the windows boarded over that have to have new roof, windows, furnace, plumbing, and wiring.
We also have to keep in mind there is a real difference between a renovating a house to be affordable, and a house renovated to attract upscale owners. The first means a new roof, painting the rooms, furnace, plumbing, gutting, wiring, and new basic kitchen and bath fixtures. Nothing fancy.
The second is doing all the aforementioned, but using premium finishes and appliances, adding additional bathrooms, removing walls to create master suites, open floorplans, etc.
Examples of rundown houses that have been saved, and are still affordable after the renovation. In fact, if you wanted to upscale houses like this, you could put in another $40,000 and they would still be affordable compared to similar houses around the Plaza/Westport. One can make smaller houses fancy-smancy houses that appeal to singles and young couples, or new parents.
Not all houses have to be 2,500 sq. feet plus to be considered modern houses. Census statistics show that around 40 percent of all households in Kansas City are singles. That's a big market for smaller houses.
321 Bellfontaine -- 3 beds, 1 bath, 1,200 sq. ft., off street parking, $125,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 23#photo29
333 Bellfontaine -- 5 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, 2,072 sq. ft., $188,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 7330-53836
4100 Bellfontaine -- 3 beds, 1 bath, 1,850 sq. ft., off street parking, $89,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 260#photo0
2002 East 36th Street --3 beds, 1 1/2 bath, 1,298 sq. ft., off street parking, $125,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 4108-32901
3613 Anderson --2 beds, 2 baths, 1,199 sq. ft., off street parking, $135,000 renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandh ... 356#photo1
4715 Virginia -- 4 beds, 3 baths, 1,618 sq. ft., off street parking, $244,900, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 038#photo2
One of my best friends is a house flipper. I'm going on what he usually puts into a house to sell it. He buys what I consider to be some really run-down, derelict houses. The type with the windows boarded over that have to have new roof, windows, furnace, plumbing, and wiring.
We also have to keep in mind there is a real difference between a renovating a house to be affordable, and a house renovated to attract upscale owners. The first means a new roof, painting the rooms, furnace, plumbing, gutting, wiring, and new basic kitchen and bath fixtures. Nothing fancy.
The second is doing all the aforementioned, but using premium finishes and appliances, adding additional bathrooms, removing walls to create master suites, open floorplans, etc.
Examples of rundown houses that have been saved, and are still affordable after the renovation. In fact, if you wanted to upscale houses like this, you could put in another $40,000 and they would still be affordable compared to similar houses around the Plaza/Westport. One can make smaller houses fancy-smancy houses that appeal to singles and young couples, or new parents.
Not all houses have to be 2,500 sq. feet plus to be considered modern houses. Census statistics show that around 40 percent of all households in Kansas City are singles. That's a big market for smaller houses.
321 Bellfontaine -- 3 beds, 1 bath, 1,200 sq. ft., off street parking, $125,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 23#photo29
333 Bellfontaine -- 5 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, 2,072 sq. ft., $188,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 7330-53836
4100 Bellfontaine -- 3 beds, 1 bath, 1,850 sq. ft., off street parking, $89,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 260#photo0
2002 East 36th Street --3 beds, 1 1/2 bath, 1,298 sq. ft., off street parking, $125,000, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 4108-32901
3613 Anderson --2 beds, 2 baths, 1,199 sq. ft., off street parking, $135,000 renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandh ... 356#photo1
4715 Virginia -- 4 beds, 3 baths, 1,618 sq. ft., off street parking, $244,900, renovated.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 038#photo2
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
^ Tge market they are going for probably wouldn’t want any of those houses, not that the existing ones couldn’t be fixed up and for a profit. They want big bedrooms, more than 1 bathroom, high ceilings, master suites, etc.
- alejandro46
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
I am not going to try and pretend like I know what analysis they did on re-place vs. renovate. I agree with the demolish option for these homes as the market will support higher priced homes in this neighborhood. Those renovations Fang posted are great examples of relatively affordable housing in newly emerging neighborhoods. However, it is not really comparable to the Plaza where maximum home prices touch $1m+. I would guess that with a full renovation of those torn down homes, the maximum sale price would be less than your costs.
Last edited by alejandro46 on Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- grovester
- Oak Tower
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
This whole thing strikes me as a true example of gentrification.
- AlbertHammond
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
I don't hate this redevelopment, but I don't love it either. Architecturally, these homes are fine. Drawings are a start, but often the builder changes things and fouls up proportions of windows and materials to acquire standard sizes. Let's hope that does not happen. What I don't love is the garages. Sure they show one car, but I expect many to sprout a second one. Also, that will be a lot of driveways that will make this feel more like a car-scape with lots of off-street parking. It won't feel as ped friendly with all these garages and driveways on these narrow lots. Too bad alleys aren't available.
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
I've heard these are all actually two-car garages. One entrance, but designed with enough space to fit two. Also, not sure if it was mentioned on this thread, but apparently these houses will be built with elevators to save space since I guess stairs would eat up more of the garage.AlbertHammond wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:01 am I don't hate this redevelopment, but I don't love it either. Architecturally, these homes are fine. Drawings are a start, but often the builder changes things and fouls up proportions of windows and materials to acquire standard sizes. Let's hope that does not happen. What I don't love is the garages. Sure they show one car, but I expect many to sprout a second one. Also, that will be a lot of driveways that will make this feel more like a car-scape with lots of off-street parking. It won't feel as ped friendly with all these garages and driveways on these narrow lots. Too bad alleys aren't available.
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Elevator closets AND stairs. No building could have an elevator and no stairs. With curb cuts for 2 car driveways there will be more limited street parking.
- AlbertHammond
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Wha!??? Then that is a clue that the images are cheats. The graphic narrows the garage door to minimize the yuck. These graphics are used to sell the idea, but are lies to reality.
- FangKC
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Five years ago I might have been fine with all these demolitions. However, the scientists who know about climate are telling us we have about 12-15 years to correct course.
We always assume this means not driving cars that burn gasoline. However, our housing choices contribute as much. Tearing down houses that could be repaired, and building new, larger homes that may end up housing one or two people (at times) is contributing to the problem.
I could even buy into these demolitions if denser multi-family housing was being built on the parcels. While carbon gases would be created in the short-term, a denser city is more efficient in a variety of ways. Even then, the people who know say the greenest house is one that is already built. if simple modifications are made to the existing house. If the replacement houses were net zero, and produced no carbon after construction, then one might make a good argument for demolition.
We always assume this means not driving cars that burn gasoline. However, our housing choices contribute as much. Tearing down houses that could be repaired, and building new, larger homes that may end up housing one or two people (at times) is contributing to the problem.
I could even buy into these demolitions if denser multi-family housing was being built on the parcels. While carbon gases would be created in the short-term, a denser city is more efficient in a variety of ways. Even then, the people who know say the greenest house is one that is already built. if simple modifications are made to the existing house. If the replacement houses were net zero, and produced no carbon after construction, then one might make a good argument for demolition.
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Have you ever heard of a tandem garage?AlbertHammond wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:37 pmWha!??? Then that is a clue that the images are cheats. The graphic narrows the garage door to minimize the yuck. These graphics are used to sell the idea, but are lies to reality.
- AlbertHammond
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Sure, but that is not what people prefer. Those are good for bikes, mowers, toys or hobby cars. Not so much daily driven cars. Too much jockeying of cars that are in each other's way. I doubt that is intended.
- FangKC
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- Strip mall
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
This development is fine IMO and is indicative of the corporate growth on the plaza over the last 10 years. Bear in mind that the Plaza supports a large, highly compensated, white collar workforce between law firms, medical, finance, and Lockton's World HQ. Lockton's growth over the last decade alone has been astonishing and around 1,000 people now work in that plaza building and 55th Main Building. All of these office locations are either on the plaza or within walking distance of the plaza. More and more highly paid workers are looking for comparable homes they could get out South but within the corridors already mentioned. This leaves either complete upscale remodels or tear downs. Most of these bungalows have to be tear downs to accommodate the sqft, # of rooms, # of bathrooms, etc. that these buyers would like. The same thing has been occurring in Prairie Village and Fairway with builders like Koenig, Colt, etc. There is a large group of people (relatively speaking) looking to live closer to the core but want a new modern home and are willing to pay $1MM for it. This is gentrification, plain and simple, but one that will likely serve the surrounding workforce as many of the luxury condos have done. The only real downside to owning in that area is a pharmacy and grocery store are not in immediate walking distance, however, the whole foods should help at least on having a higher end grocery store near enough. On a final note, the higher property values, assuming no large abatement, will better serve the community through substantially higher property taxes.
- alejandro46
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
They are two car garages.
I am 100% for preservation, dont get me wrong. I love historic properties, character and quirks. However, the floorplans may be inefficient for the modern buyer, as well as inefficient to heat and to maintain. Global warming is a legitimate concern; accelerating all ground based transportation to sustainable energy. reducing sprawl (read: more miles driven to commute), increasing funding for public transit are much more feasible solutions than stopping teardowns and new development.
- AlbertHammond
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Wow....that is very inefficient use of space. Well, at least that means the door and driveway won't be a full 2-car width, though clearly not a lean 1-car width either. I guess with self-driving cars, the drivers don't have to worry about clipping the other car during this garage angle parking maneuver.
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
Most of the homes that are being torn down have no off-street parking, or only the 'under home' garage where neither the garage nor the driveway can accommodate a single vehicle. While I wish there was room for a shared back alley with detached garages, I don't think there's a problem with parking two vehicles in the space shown, especially if the residents don't opt for an elevator.
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Re: Plaza Residential Development
I'd call those garages one car garages in practice. It would be an extremely tight fit with two normal size cars, and most people just fill half their garage with junk anyway.
Considering the location and the fact that that neighborhood has street parking, a one car garage still isn't needed, but I seriously doubt that many people are going to put two cars in there.
Considering the location and the fact that that neighborhood has street parking, a one car garage still isn't needed, but I seriously doubt that many people are going to put two cars in there.