Affordable Housing

KC topics that don't fit anywhere else.
User avatar
KCtoBrooklyn
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1208
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:01 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

A lot of judgmental bullshit to unpack there. I will just focus on the concept that if you can't afford to buy a home, then you don't have your shit together.

Let's put aside the fact that the circumstances people are born into which have a great impact on their ability earn money have nothing to do with "getting your shit together". Let's also ignore the cases where someone might be saddled with large amounts of debt due to situations beyond their control such as medical bills, accidents, etc. We will also ignore all the people who make minimum wage or close to it.

Consider someone who has a decent working class job that might make $18 an hour. That's about $37k per year, which is also the equivalent of many entry level positions (starting teacher salary, etc). The general rule of thumb is that you shouldn't spend over 30% of your income on housing. For this person, that would equal $936 per month.

If this person is able to save up enough for a down payment (hard to do with high rent prices) and get their credit in good shape, they would be able to afford a mortgage on a home that is $110,000. You really can't buy much of anything that is habitable for that price.

I'm not saying that home ownership is a right that everyone should have, but let's not dismiss those who can't afford it- which is a quickly growing percentage of the population.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by daGOAT »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:08 pm A lot of judgmental bullshit to unpack there. I will just focus on the concept that if you can't afford to buy a home, then you don't have your shit together.

Let's put aside the fact that the circumstances people are born into which have a great impact on their ability earn money have nothing to do with "getting your shit together". Let's also ignore the cases where someone might be saddled with large amounts of debt due to situations beyond their control such as medical bills, accidents, etc. We will also ignore all the people who make minimum wage or close to it.

Consider someone who has a decent working class job that might make $18 an hour. That's about $37k per year, which is also the equivalent of many entry level positions (starting teacher salary, etc). The general rule of thumb is that you shouldn't spend over 30% of your income on housing. For this person, that would equal $936 per month.

If this person is able to save up enough for a down payment (hard to do with high rent prices) and get their credit in good shape, they would be able to afford a mortgage on a home that is $110,000. You really can't buy much of anything that is habitable for that price.

I'm not saying that home ownership is a right that everyone should have, but let's not dismiss those who can't afford it- which is a quickly growing percentage of the population.
Idk how many people you kno who are actually raised in the Eastside but the problem is not that they can’t afford housing. It’s that we, me included, are accustomed to $350 studios which are cheap enough to encourage the deadly habits people have. You can’t discuss poverty without an acute understanding of what it’s like G. I’m going to say this once from personal experience the City and it’s school district have failed us miserably. Do you kno how many friends who graduated Central or East that just can’t read or write but they can cook up, grit, hit licks, and pimp? Do you even kno what that means and the generational hatred that is taught thru the only means we had for income? Do you kno how many people have drug and alcohol habits because of that trauma? Ima assume, no. Fact is the only chance we have is to focus on younger generations and not let the older ones fuck em up because they are growing up in a small city with very little real opportunity, hence why the more ambitious I became the less time I have spent back home. Being sensitive looks good but it won’t produce the results that come from a true understanding of the cycles that created such an unfair disadvantage for me and 10’s of thousands of kids growing up on the Eastside of the city, which mind you is only one swath of hood, Southside and Westside hoods are seeing the same problems. You might not realize it but a kid like me has a better shot of reaching the hoods from down north to out south. Maybe one day I’ll have a shot to make a difference on the East.
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2510
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by TheLastGentleman »

daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:56 pm
TheLastGentleman wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:49 amAffordable to who though?
Anyone who can get their shit together... these prices are still dirt cheap.
Ok. Who is in this “shit together” demographic, from your perspective?
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by daGOAT »

People who work hard to make it happen no matter what despite their unfair circumstances. The ones who seek knowledge and take control of their own lives. 1000 mortgage is extremely cheap and far from unattainable. I kno single mothers in the 50’s who rent 800 a month 3 beds. Why not grind a little harder for something you can really take pride in?

I also reiterate houses on the Westside of Chicago, which is an awful place to live, sell for half a mil. If they can make that happen with their environment why can’t Kansas Citians pay half that their respective built environment, which is in better proximity to wealth that most West Chicago hoods are.
phuqueue
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2684
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by phuqueue »

daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:56 pm Impoverished parts of Chicago homes sell for half a mil and the people make it happen.
lol, this is a load of shit. Whatever the aggregate demo of an area might be, the people buying half million dollar homes are not poor people "making it happen." And we're not so far removed from people "making it happen" with houses they couldn't actually afford cratering the global economy, so this phenomenon, even if it were real (it's not), is not a good thing that should be encouraged.
Why not grind a little harder for something you can really take pride in?
If everyone were to "grind a little harder" (which I guess is code for "magically raise your income to afford a home"), what do you think that would do to housing prices? Individual solutions don't fix collective problems.
herrfrank
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by herrfrank »

Housing prices are not subject to what we wish would happen. There is an enormous market out there, full of individuals all doing their own thing. Housing prices reflect the market. The KC market is rising. So are many metros.

There are other places with stagnant or declining values -- lots of little dustbowl towns have houses under 100k. The future however, for urban, 100k-and-lower buyers is apartments, either rentals or cheap condos.

It was an aberration that single-family homes in multiple US metros were so cheap for 40 years, probably arising from the precipitous evacuation of the white middle and working classes in many cities from 1965-1985. I don't think 50k solid-construction, single-family housing is coming back in any major US core cities.
kboish
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: West Plaza

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by kboish »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:32 am I'm not obscuring anything. The data is there. I'm not sure how to relevantly discuss price growth without talking percentage.

Yes, houses on the East Side are still relatively affordable, but the prices have shot up dramatically. These numbers include a large number of homes that are in uninhabitable condition. Renovated, move-in ready homes in these zips frequently go over $200k. That number is still well below the metro average and what most would consider "affordable", but it is out of the price range for most who live in the area.
I see that it seemed like i was targeting you with my comment. I didnt mean it like that. I meant “one” can obscure things if they dont include the actual price. You did- I appreciate you providing the info.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by daGOAT »

phuqueue wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:48 pm
daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:56 pm Impoverished parts of Chicago homes sell for half a mil and the people make it happen.
lol, this is a load of shit. Whatever the aggregate demo of an area might be, the people buying half million dollar homes are not poor people "making it happen." And we're not so far removed from people "making it happen" with houses they couldn't actually afford cratering the global economy, so this phenomenon, even if it were real (it's not), is not a good thing that should be encouraged.
Why not grind a little harder for something you can really take pride in?
If everyone were to "grind a little harder" (which I guess is code for "magically raise your income to afford a home"), what do you think that would do to housing prices? Individual solutions don't fix collective problems.
Do you speak from exp or do you just desperately wanna be correct?
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by daGOAT »

Housing will inflate again by 2030 weather anyone likes it or not. I remember 15 years ago older ppl would always say the dollar lost its value and ig now the $5 is quickly losing value as well. If anyone truly cared about the hood at City Hall they would educate us better and provide incentives for residents to help them from becoming priced out. Sadly I don't see hope for older generations and I strongly feel the best solution is to prevent the younger generations from following in their footsteps. 200k homes are totally affordable and low income residents CAN afford them its just not easy when you are accustomed to the market of a failing city. If KC wants to be big league, which is doubtable with current leadership, than it HAS to find ways to make this more obtainable and NOT be forcing affordability, which was just a perk from the lack of demand. I for one don't ever wanna see my home city sink back to what it was a decade ago and I do not believe it is anywhere near what it could be in 2022. We are talking about a city with some of the best potential for growth in the United States bruh.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6255
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by beautyfromashes »

daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:48 pm the City and it’s school district have failed us miserably. Do you know how many friends who graduated Central or East that just can’t read or write ...
This is unfortunately the truth. But let's celebrate that we are now just barely an accredited school district.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 16953
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by FangKC »

daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:05 pm ...
If anyone truly cared about the hood at City Hall they would educate us better
There is little anyone at City Hall can do about the Kansas City Public School District. The mayor doesn't control the district and cannot fire the District administrators.

As for the City as a whole, there are other school districts with KCMO limits, so residents do have options. The problem is that there needs to be more of a mechanism for mobility.

What can be done though is for residents to lobby for the Feds and state to expand Section 8 vouchers. More people could get off the waiting list, and those who apply get vouchers quicker. The City could pass an ordinance that requires all new apartments to accept Section 8 vouchers in some percentage of total units. This would include new apartment buildings that don't accept some form of tax abatement or TIF. As it is now, I believe the 20 percent affordable provision only applies to developments that accept some form of subsidy.

This would bring more suburban apartment development into the program and voucher holders would have more access to suburban KCMO school districts. The State could also pass a law requiring suburban municipalities to provide expanded acceptance of Section 8 vouchers in their new developments.

I don't expect the State to do this though since it's completely run by Republicans, and suburban voters would likely protest.
phuqueue
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2684
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by phuqueue »

daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:58 pm
phuqueue wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:48 pm
daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:56 pm Impoverished parts of Chicago homes sell for half a mil and the people make it happen.
lol, this is a load of shit. Whatever the aggregate demo of an area might be, the people buying half million dollar homes are not poor people "making it happen." And we're not so far removed from people "making it happen" with houses they couldn't actually afford cratering the global economy, so this phenomenon, even if it were real (it's not), is not a good thing that should be encouraged.
Why not grind a little harder for something you can really take pride in?
If everyone were to "grind a little harder" (which I guess is code for "magically raise your income to afford a home"), what do you think that would do to housing prices? Individual solutions don't fix collective problems.
Do you speak from exp or do you just desperately wanna be correct?
I am correct. The idea that you can buy a $500,000 house with a poverty-level income is completely unmoored from reality. It's not 2007 anymore, nobody would ever make that loan. And if one guy manages to "grind a little harder," ok, maybe he can get that home that was out of reach before, but if everyone grinds and there is a general increase in spending power, there will just be a general increase in prices as well, and the people who can't afford a home now still won't be able to afford a home then.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by daGOAT »

phuqueue wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:56 pm
daGOAT wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:58 pm
phuqueue wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:48 pm
lol, this is a load of shit. Whatever the aggregate demo of an area might be, the people buying half million dollar homes are not poor people "making it happen." And we're not so far removed from people "making it happen" with houses they couldn't actually afford cratering the global economy, so this phenomenon, even if it were real (it's not), is not a good thing that should be encouraged.


If everyone were to "grind a little harder" (which I guess is code for "magically raise your income to afford a home"), what do you think that would do to housing prices? Individual solutions don't fix collective problems.
Do you speak from exp or do you just desperately wanna be correct?
I am correct. The idea that you can buy a $500,000 house with a poverty-level income is completely unmoored from reality. It's not 2007 anymore, nobody would ever make that loan. And if one guy manages to "grind a little harder," ok, maybe he can get that home that was out of reach before, but if everyone grinds and there is a general increase in spending power, there will just be a general increase in prices as well, and the people who can't afford a home now still won't be able to afford a home then.
The homes in reference were sub 200k... mind states like yours just promote poverty. I believe in change for the better not catering to previous victimizations. The men and women of East Kansas City CAN be given the tools to afford a cheap 200k home and with proper leadership they will.
phuqueue
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2684
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by phuqueue »

I didn't just selectively quote:
Impoverished parts of Chicago homes sell for half a mil and the people make it happen.
for no reason. I understand the homes in question in KC are not selling for $500k. I'm calling bullshit on the specific assertion that poor people in Chicago are buying $500k houses. I'm not going to opine on whether some hypothetical poor person in KC should be able to afford some hypothetical house on the East Side, but I will note that, not only is $200k not "cheap" for everyone, but for someone living in literal poverty (a cursory Google search reveals this KCUR thing stating that the poverty rate on the East Side is 35%, though it could be outdated), $200k is far in excess of what they could ever afford. That's an objective statement -- their DTI will exceed the maximum of any lender, including for an FHA loan. And if the entire East Side is "given the tools to afford" $200k, house prices there will just rise faster. It's a race that cannot be won.
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2510
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Trickle down economics is a hell of a drug
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by daGOAT »

It's not considered trickle down economics when you grow up with nothing. Its considered coming up and nipping the cycle of generational poverty at the bud. Families on the Eastside could easily afford a 200k house with a $1500 mortgage, if they weren't suffering inequalities for your privilege. Trust me man, young people growing up in the hood don't want (and don't need) things to be cheaper, they need real shots to make real money and it is that simple. If the people coming up financially creates the inflation that you most certainly see in Chicago and Los Angeles it would be a blessing; a sign of strength in the city and her citizens.
User avatar
normalthings
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7755
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by normalthings »

STL gave a 90% abatement to a 30 floor tower today.
User avatar
Chris Stritzel
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1524
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by Chris Stritzel »

normalthings wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:21 pm STL gave a 90% abatement to a 30 floor tower today.
Of the 500 units proposed in the 4 individual projects, 50 are affordable and workforce units in a historic renovation. So that’s how they’re getting the incentives. The tower is all luxury, market-rate.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by daGOAT »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:37 pm
normalthings wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:21 pm STL gave a 90% abatement to a 30 floor tower today.
Of the 500 units proposed in the 4 individual projects, 50 are affordable and workforce units in a historic renovation. So that’s how they’re getting the incentives. The tower is all luxury, market-rate.
10% affordability seems like a win win for city and developer.
User avatar
normalthings
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7755
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Affordable Housing

Post by normalthings »

Lucas admits the affordable incentive failed after EDC applications fall to 0 since being introduced.

1. City vote to bond $50mm affordable housing and $125mm for parks and parking.
2. Affordable requirement change to 20% at 60% AMI vs. current 10 at 70 and 10 at 30
3. Guarantee incentives for projects near transit, disinvested areas, etc.
4. Legalize ADU’s
Post Reply