Affordable Housing

KC topics that don't fit anywhere else.
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chrizow
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by chrizow »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:57 pm
And here is the zip just to the west, 64109. Goes from Gillham to Prospect. Averages went from $50k 10 years ago to a recent peak of over $300k.
fascinating, and something i've noticed in our previous neighborhood, South Hyde Park. we lived there from 2008 to 2016. during that period, it was pretty much unheard-of for a house to sell above 200k. (maybe a couple sales of unusually-large homes) now, over 200K is the norm.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by flyingember »

chrizow wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:32 pm
KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:57 pm
And here is the zip just to the west, 64109. Goes from Gillham to Prospect. Averages went from $50k 10 years ago to a recent peak of over $300k.
fascinating, and something i've noticed in our previous neighborhood, South Hyde Park. we lived there from 2008 to 2016. during that period, it was pretty much unheard-of for a house to sell above 200k. (maybe a couple sales of unusually-large homes) now, over 200K is the norm.
Homes in Hyde Park are still dramatically under priced.

Looking at what's for sale, they're 30-50% under priced.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by beautyfromashes »

phuqueue wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:20 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:18 pm There is a housing crisis only if you feel the urban core should be the sole location for cheap rent in the metro.
This is precisely the kind of take I was attacking in the first thread with that Simpsons gag. The implication here, much as in that post from a few days ago where the other person talked about "shabby, rundown areas where you can find a deal" is that people with lower incomes should be forced out of desirable urban core neighborhoods and into suburban slums to make way for whoever has an extra buck to spend. The urban core need not be the "sole" area where you can find affordable rent, but it shouldn't be transformed into a playground open only to people with money either, and in particular, people who have been in their homes for years or decades shouldn't be forced to vacate because somebody with more money suddenly parachuted in and decided they want that house for themselves.
Don't tell me what the implication of my post was or tie it to some other post that isn't what I believe or said at all.
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KCtoBrooklyn
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

chrizow wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:32 pm
KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:57 pm
And here is the zip just to the west, 64109. Goes from Gillham to Prospect. Averages went from $50k 10 years ago to a recent peak of over $300k.
fascinating, and something i've noticed in our previous neighborhood, South Hyde Park. we lived there from 2008 to 2016. during that period, it was pretty much unheard-of for a house to sell above 200k. (maybe a couple sales of unusually-large homes) now, over 200K is the norm.

So you are saying that you moved out, and then the neighborhood greatly increased in value. Interesting. I think we see what was holding the area back.

But yeah, not too long ago the average Shirtwaist in SHP or similar areas would go for around $150k. Now bungalows go for $225+ and Shirtwaists frequently go over $300k.
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chrizow
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Re: Affordable Housing

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KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:49 pm
So you are saying that you moved out, and then the neighborhood greatly increased in value. Interesting. I think we see what was holding the area back.
to keep gentrifiers on their toes, i would fire several gunshots into the air around 10pm each night. sad to see no one picked up the torch when we left.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by taxi »

chrizow wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:39 am to keep gentrifiers on their toes, i would fire several gunshots into the air around 10pm each night. sad to see no one picked up the torch when we left.
Did you move to Columbus Park?
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by alejandro46 »

Saw KCPT video on Reddit from Overland Park Mayoral race debate that touched on affordable housing.

EDIT: Direct link below;

https://youtu.be/sLV-DNO3pvE?t=2731
Keep watching to 45:35, beyond vaccine comments to question about affordable: housing. Skoog for more appartments, density and creating places for young and middle class to live, but gets expected questions about subsidizing "luxury" apartments. Notes OP hasn't given any subsidies to projects past 119th St, not in pockets of developers, says TIF is not a blank check.

Czinege for affordable housing, critizes current government for "re-zoning into neighborhoods for high rise apartment buildings," says rents of 1100-3500 is too expensive, stop subsidizing apartments, and 'what impacts they have on flood runoff, give tax incentives for young people to move into older areas of overland park to rehab smaller homes in older neighborhoods in OP.

Both also "open" to Metcalf streetcar. Czinege for listening to proposal, Skoog loves Vision Metcalf, said it VM looked at Light Rail back when it was drafted thought it was a good idea, so now pro-streetcar as it aligns with Vision Metcalf goals. Also both are open to supporting DT stadium. Really wild times that both candidates are open to these ideas, shows how far regional cooperation has come.
Last edited by alejandro46 on Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by flyingember »

alejandro46 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:20 am
Both also "open" to Metcalf streetcar. Czinege for listening to proposal, Skoog loves Vision Metcalf, said it VM looked at Light Rail back when it was drafted thought it was a good idea, so now pro-streetcar as it aligns with Vision Metcalf goals. Also both are open to supporting DT stadium. Really wild times that both candidates are open to these ideas, shows how far regional cooperation has come.
Shows how much money the train brought other parts of town and they want some of that
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by TheLastGentleman »

A KC landlord just murdered a tenant.

Family members devastated after landlord is accused of killing a tenant over heating complaint
Samantha Pohlman says the horrific chain of events began after a chilly night inside the home the couple was renting. They had an agreement with their landlord that they would pay a lower amount of rent because they would help remodel the home.

“He just messaged him like, ‘hey, can we please just do something about the heating situation,” Pohlman said.

She says they were cordial in their request.
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Re: Affordable Housing

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Why building more homes won’t solve the affordable housing problem for the millions of people who need it most
...
In part that’s because in much of the country, there is actually no shortage of rental housing. The problem is that millions of people lack the income to afford what’s on the market.
...
Nationally, about 45% of all renter households spend more than 30% of their pretax income on rent – the widely recognized threshold of affordability. About half of these renters, 9.7 million in total, spend more than 50% of their income on housing, greatly impairing their ability to meet other basic needs and putting them at risk of becoming homeless.

Nearly two-thirds of renters paying at least half of their income on housing earn less than US$20,000, which is below the poverty line for a family of three. Renters with somewhat higher incomes also struggle with housing affordability, but the problem is most pervasive and most severe among very-low income households.

For a household earning $20,000, $500 per month is the highest affordable rent, assuming the affordability standard of spending no more than 30% of income on housing. In contrast, the median rent in the U.S. in 2019 was $1,097, a level that’s affordable to households earning no less than $43,880.
...
At the heart of the nation’s affordability crisis is the fact that the cost to build and operate housing simply exceeds what low-income renters can afford. Nationally, the average monthly operating cost for a rental unit in 2018 was $439, excluding mortgage and other debt-related expenses.

In other words, even if landlords set rents at the bare minimum needed to cover costs – with no profit – housing would remain unaffordable to most very-low-income households – unless they also receive rental subsidies.
...
The U.S. already has a program designed to help these people afford homes. With Housing Choice Vouchers, also known as Section 8, recipients pay 30% of their income on rent, and the program covers the balance.
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The $26 billion program currently serves about 2.5 million households, or only 1 in 4 of all eligible households. The current version of Democrats’ social spending bill would gradually expand the program by about 300,000 over five years at a total cost of $24 billion.
...
https://theconversation.com/why-buildin ... 1636760909
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by flyingember »

There's one interesting item missing from their argument. Localized impacts and the impact of distance and transportation on cost

They point out there's a glut of rentals nationally. But they don't mention if the rentals are where people want to live at.
If there's 500 empty affordable rentals in Warrensburg how many people will move an hour outside the city to work in the city?

They mention spending > 30% on rent but is it better to spend 20% on rent and 15% on transportation instead?
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Re: Affordable Housing

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Why It’s Wrong to Turn Down Half a Loaf of Affordable Housing
...
Other studies have found that when affordability mandates are too stringent, they can discourage development altogether. This seems intuitive, as developers cannot be expected to charge rents far below market rate when all their expenses remain at a market-rate level.
...
The expectation of some San Francisco supervisors that projects should exceed even the current California level, or better yet, become 100-percent-affordable social housing, is unrealistic. Accomplishing that would require massive subsidies, and if officials such as Preston expect private developers to do this without much subsidy, not much will be built. Right now San Francisco and other expensive U.S. cities are risking that latter outcome.
https://www.governing.com/community/why ... le-housing
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by herrfrank »

Tonight, I had a conversation at a cocktail party with a new woman, just met. Granted this is First World Problems. She was complaining that she cannot find anything in Palm Beach County under $1.2 million for one 700-square-feet 1BR apartment "in a good, doorman building." And I think she might be correct.

We are in a bubble, folks. Ordinary people do not generate enough cash flow to support these prices.
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KCtoBrooklyn
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

herrfrank wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:35 pm We are in a bubble, folks. Ordinary people do not generate enough cash flow to support these prices.
That does not necessarily mean we are in a bubble. Most experts do not think we are (although I know experts are frequently wrong). A bubble is not about affordability, but about values being unmoored from market reality. The fundamentals of the housing market are still very strong. The rise in prices is mostly due to supply and demand (combined with historically low interest rates).

Obviously, there are unknown variables in any market, but I don't foresee a real estate crash happening any time soon. I don't think we will see a repeat of 2008 when values were artificially pumped up by sub-prime lending, not market fundamentals.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by earthling »

Yeah seems to be more of a supply/demand thing than 2008 scenario. Economists say Fed Reserve can't directly change the supply part of equation but they can and have manipulated demand, probably time to start making some adjustments.

In KC's case, COL/housing costs going up but KC earnings apparently not on par with peers or trending down some depending on how measured, the net result ultimately creating a different kind of affordability issue for those with less earnings. On another note, one quandary example was a recent Star article about a Volker area building that owners attempted to keep affordable but wasn't taken well care of, lot of disrepair and tenants had mixed feelings about accepting that for the low rent.. If things are repaired at market rate standards, rent typically reflects improvements/fixes. What to do. Eventually the building was sold to someone who will upgrade it, but rent goes up along with it.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

Realtor.com has released their projections for the 30 hottest markets in 2021 (based on a combination of price and sales increase).

The list is mostly populated by small and mid-sized metros. KC ranks #13 with a projected 11% increase in sales and 4.7% increase in price.

That price increase number is getting back to a more standard level, as opposed to the historic increases we have seen this last year (about 18%). I have seen other projections for a higher price increase next year, in the 11 to 12 percent range.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals ... -2022.html
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by TheBigChuckbowski »

It's a weird thing I've noticed while paying attention to Longfellow real estate where it seems like like-for-like houses haven't appreciated seemingly at all since 2019, mid-$200s to mid-$300s depends on size, rooms. But, new construction or high-end renovations are in the $600-700k range, with nothing coming close to that price-point until the last year. Just one house selling at that price would make it seem like the neighborhood has appreciated dramatically even if individual houses haven't budged. It's a strange dynamic.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by beautyfromashes »

TheBigChuckbowski wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:11 am It's a weird thing I've noticed while paying attention to Longfellow real estate where it seems like like-for-like houses haven't appreciated seemingly at all since 2019, mid-$200s to mid-$300s depends on size, rooms. But, new construction or high-end renovations are in the $600-700k range, with nothing coming close to that price-point until the last year. Just one house selling at that price would make it seem like the neighborhood has appreciated dramatically even if individual houses haven't budged. It's a strange dynamic.
It seems to me that starter houses and small family houses have risen dramatically across KCMO but prices start to stall out around $350-$400k. I just don't think there is enough higher salary jobs to meet that price point. Many are saying the low-end demand is from empty nesters downsizing and driving up prices. It could also be divorced families and young professionals waiting longer to get married but still wanting to buy a house.
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chrizow
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by chrizow »

anecdotally, things in BKS seem really crazy. we paid around $315K for our house in Jan. 2017 and i bet we could sell it, as-is, for $450K or more--and it would probably sell in 1-3 days. any decent house is getting multiple, over-ask offers. lots of people are cashing out and trying to upgrade with equity (and possibly meeting the same headwinds as they turn around and buy, but maybe still worth it). we are looking at remodeling/adding to the house and every contractor we have spoken with says they are booked for 8-12 mos, mostly with other people in BKS or nearby doing the same thing. it kind of feels "bubble-y" but maybe it's just a new reality as KC becomes hot (or hot-adjacent) and BKS is kind of a nice middle ground for people who want to live near the urban core but in a somewhat more relaxed and kid-friendly environment.
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Re: Affordable Housing

Post by STLguy1 »

Kc ranks 13th. Pretty good.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals ... -2022.html
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