Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Transportation topics in KC

What route should the third phase of streetcar expansion follow?

Linwood: Main to Michigan(71 Highway)
11
10%
Country Club ROW: UMKC to Brookside/Waldo
24
22%
Country Club ROW: UMKC through Brookside/Waldo to Prospect
14
13%
Linwood: Main to Emanuel Cleaver 2
13
12%
City/County Wide Rail Project
40
36%
Other
9
8%
 
Total votes: 111

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DaveKCMO
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

John is reliably there to talk about this topic -- a sort of singular obsession with the airport and East Jack.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the only thing he does these days as he has not done any work to build a coalition beyond a few old white guys.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

December KCATA Board Meeting:
VIII. New Business
Vice-Chair Townsend stated that he heard of a white paper floating around on a rail plan to Arrowhead stadium on a summary report on the draft. Staff state sat the January meeting we should have a draft plan for the NFL Draft event.
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alejandro46
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

normalthings wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:56 pm December KCATA Board Meeting:
VIII. New Business
Vice-Chair Townsend stated that he heard of a white paper floating around on a rail plan to Arrowhead stadium on a summary report on the draft. Staff state sat the January meeting we should have a draft plan for the NFL Draft event.
What’s the last sentence mean? Draft plan for that NFL draft event? It that a typo, as “prior” to the nfl draft event?
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

alejandro46 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:12 pm
normalthings wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:56 pm December KCATA Board Meeting:
VIII. New Business
Vice-Chair Townsend stated that he heard of a white paper floating around on a rail plan to Arrowhead stadium on a summary report on the draft. Staff state sat the January meeting we should have a draft plan for the NFL Draft event.
What’s the last sentence mean? Draft plan for that NFL draft event? It that a typo, as “prior” to the nfl draft event?
Draft NFL Draft transit plan to be presented at this week’s KCATA meeting.
TheUrbanRoo
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

Is this the same type of rail plan that has supposedly been floated for the World Cup
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

UMKC Roo wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:15 am Is this the same type of rail plan that has supposedly been floated for the World Cup
No legitimate rail plan has been floated other than intercity as far as I am aware
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alejandro46
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

normalthings wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:21 am
alejandro46 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:12 pm
normalthings wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:56 pm December KCATA Board Meeting:

What’s the last sentence mean? Draft plan for that NFL draft event? It that a typo, as “prior” to the nfl draft event?
Draft NFL Draft transit plan to be presented at this week’s KCATA meeting.
Thanks.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

UMKC Roo wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:15 am Is this the same type of rail plan that has supposedly been floated for the World Cup
Rail to the stadiums from anywhere in the city LIT-ER-ALLY cannot be built in the time that remains. I love the city manager's enthusiasm for more streetcar, but it would be a nightmare to fail given impossible expectations.

The city has 1,000 other things to focus on and this shouldn't be one of them. It wasn't even in the bid package.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:07 pm Rail to the stadiums from anywhere in the city LIT-ER-ALLY cannot be built in the time that remains. I love the city manager's enthusiasm for more streetcar, but it would be a nightmare to fail given impossible expectations.

The city has 1,000 other things to focus on and this shouldn't be one of them. It wasn't even in the bid package.
It's not the build that couldn't be done, it's the bureaucracy, financing and neighborhood input piece that takes so long. I'm sure it won't be done but it's not because it's not possible. They could build a tunnel to the stadiums if they wanted one before the WC.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by WoodDraw »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:00 pm
DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:07 pm Rail to the stadiums from anywhere in the city LIT-ER-ALLY cannot be built in the time that remains. I love the city manager's enthusiasm for more streetcar, but it would be a nightmare to fail given impossible expectations.

The city has 1,000 other things to focus on and this shouldn't be one of them. It wasn't even in the bid package.
It's not the build that couldn't be done, it's the bureaucracy, financing and neighborhood input piece that takes so long. I'm sure it won't be done but it's not because it's not possible. They could build a tunnel to the stadiums if they wanted one before the WC.
"If they wanted one" isn't true. Like if you had state and federal legislation that funded everything and exempted it from judicial review and normal process.

We all know the US is broken in the way we build infrastructure, but I wouldn't climb this hill and die on it for the world cup.

Even if you wanted to, you'd split the political divide around community input and environmental review, not even before you get into funding.

Pick the battles please.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by beautyfromashes »

WoodDraw wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:31 pm "If they wanted one" isn't true. Like if you had state and federal legislation that funded everything and exempted it from judicial review and normal process.

We all know the US is broken in the way we build infrastructure, but I wouldn't climb this hill and die on it for the world cup.

Even if you wanted to, you'd split the political divide around community input and environmental review, not even before you get into funding.

Pick the battles please.
Right, so say that. "This isn't a big enough priority and we don't have the political will to make it happen." Saying this isn't happening because there isn't enough time to do the engineer planning and lay the track- is simply a falsity. They could build that line.

I agree that it's not a hill to die on, not valuable enough route or worth the funds. I just don't like the "this is an impossibility" messaging. It happens too often when infrastructure besides roads highways is proposed and is the first problem to fix as we look to more transit in the future.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by WoodDraw »

Meh, we're arguing semantics on a very niche message board. You already know how all of us would act if appointed quatari style dictators for the tournament.

I'm not sure what you're getting at? The reality is our reality. Not sure it helps to make everyone stand over a book of zoning regulations and pledge we would like things to be different to satisfy some messaging kink.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:00 pm
DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:07 pm Rail to the stadiums from anywhere in the city LIT-ER-ALLY cannot be built in the time that remains. I love the city manager's enthusiasm for more streetcar, but it would be a nightmare to fail given impossible expectations.

The city has 1,000 other things to focus on and this shouldn't be one of them. It wasn't even in the bid package.
It's not the build that couldn't be done, it's the bureaucracy, financing and neighborhood input piece that takes so long. I'm sure it won't be done but it's not because it's not possible. They could build a tunnel to the stadiums if they wanted one before the WC.
You just listed required items, so my point stands.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by daGOAT »

i agree with Dave, if the density isn't there to pay for an expansion to NKC, how is it going thru impoverished neighborhoods and industrial areas to a NFL stadium known for tailgating? We would be better off investing in bus infrastructure and a complete rebuild of Blue Ridge Blvd.
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alejandro46
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

I agree with expanding down 31/st Linwood and using the stadiums as an endpoint, with part of the cost included in the new stadium renovation/construction expense. Connecting these neighborhoods via transit would be a huge boost to them and generate a lot of new development on vacant land.

I am not an expert, but I also don't see any way how it is feasible to get rail to Arrowhead in time for WC. There's too many public votes and things that need to happen - vote for regional transit AND a new stadium probably would have to be drafted with and pass.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

daGOAT wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:21 pm We would be better off investing in bus infrastructure and a complete rebuild of Blue Ridge Blvd.
Now you're talking!
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:54 am You just listed required items, so my point stands.
They don’t need to be, at least not to the massive scope that they are now. It’s mostly just because that’s how bureaucrats get paid.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by mean »

"it's possible, but only if magic eliminates all the logistical requirements" == "it's not possible" and I don't feel like this should be particularly controversial...?
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Jblanco »

Running the streetcar or LRT to Truman is a bad idea, never work, waste of $$.

If you want transit to a Sunday Chiefs game or (a future) World Cup build the new stadium in the West bottoms as ultimately in 10 years that will be the most densely populated neighborhood next to downtown. A 3 mile line up/down that hill on 12th st would be a great new expansion. It could also support a new MLS stadium there in the next decade or 2. Go West! (not east) Stay in the core! Just my 2cents.

Also a stop at 12 & Main would deliver West Bottom residents to a short walk to the new Royals Stadium.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

Jblanco wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:36 pm Running the streetcar or LRT to Truman is a bad idea, never work, waste of $$.

If you want transit to a Sunday Chiefs game or (a future) World Cup build the new stadium in the West bottoms as ultimately in 10 years that will be the most densely populated neighborhood next to downtown. A 3 mile line up/down that hill on 12th st would be a great new expansion. It could also support a new MLS stadium there in the next decade or 2. Go West! (not east) Stay in the core! Just my 2cents.

Also a stop at 12 & Main would deliver West Bottom residents to a short walk to the new Royals Stadium.
Wouldn't a Gondola actually be a more effective mode than a LRT from CBD to WB
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