Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
- KCPowercat
- Ambassador
- Posts: 34027
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
- Location: Quality Hill
- Contact:
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Let's leave the omaha streetcar talk out of here?
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
I got us off-topic. Do think its somewhat relevant as a way we can finance more lines,
- KCPowercat
- Ambassador
- Posts: 34027
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
- Location: Quality Hill
- Contact:
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
well they are a ways off from proving they can put shovels in the ground with that funding but yeah always good to consider different ideas.
- AlkaliAxel
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
- Location: West Plaza
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
So they're paying to build their own streetcar and are gonna keep it free forever? How can Omaha do that? And if so, why the hell isn't KC and every other city building out more lines right now using this exact method? Something's not right here
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Will the Omaha streetcar be in a dedicated or center running right of way with true signal priority? If so, I would be jealous as hell. Good for Omaha though.
- KCPowercat
- Ambassador
- Posts: 34027
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
- Location: Quality Hill
- Contact:
- AlkaliAxel
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
- Location: West Plaza
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
I've been meaning to come back to this and have been discussing this figure with some others recently.normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:39 pm It was $1 billion to expand the trench + build a junction and go to Union Station
There is no fucking way that costs that much to do. I'm sorry but there's no way that's true.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:46 pmI've been meaning to come back to this and have been discussing this figure with some others recently.normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:39 pm It was $1 billion to expand the trench + build a junction and go to Union Station
There is no fucking way that costs that much to do. I'm sorry but there's no way that's true.
It is what was quoted then. I am sure the number could vary based on a deeper study. A lot has to be done to expand the trench
Trench Costs
Acquire adjacent land
Demo many adjacent structures
Excavation along mission-critical rail lines
Replace all road bridges
Build miles of deep retaining walls
Replace or expand many of the rail bridges
Junction
Land acquisition
Construct flyovers and viaducts
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Part of the inflated cost is to discourage the community from consuming private railroad capacity for public transportation, but they won't let anyone else estimate the costs so...
- Anthony_Hugo98
- Valencia Place
- Posts: 1979
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
- Location: Overland Park, KS
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Sort of. Consultants are involved. Let's say you own a pipe and the government says they want to put some stuff through your pipe (heh), but your entire business model relies on having available capacity in the pipe as the market shifts (coal, containers, etc.). So you can either restrict your long-term profit potential or give the government what they need for a low price. What would you do?
- Anthony_Hugo98
- Valencia Place
- Posts: 1979
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
- Location: Overland Park, KS
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Makes sense now. The number always seemed astronomically high to me, but that reasoning shows why.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:36 pmSort of. Consultants are involved. Let's say you own a pipe and the government says they want to put some stuff through your pipe (heh), but your entire business model relies on having available capacity in the pipe as the market shifts (coal, containers, etc.). So you can either restrict your long-term profit potential or give the government what they need for a low price. What would you do?
- AlkaliAxel
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
- Location: West Plaza
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Assuming this mythical money appears, I don’t think the Feds or many people here would find running mixed traffic streetcars all over the place a good use of money.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:02 pm If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?
- AlkaliAxel
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
- Location: West Plaza
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Well obv it’s assumed you put it up for a full vote for a tax. That’s what I’m saying, why not try it? If it fails, whatever. Main St prob makes streetcar a staple popular item that I think would passWoodDraw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:23 pmAssuming this mythical money appears, I don’t think the Feds or many people here would find running mixed traffic streetcars all over the place a good use of money.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:02 pm If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?
-
- Pad site
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:40 pm
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Clay is that you?AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:32 pmWell obv it’s assumed you put it up for a full vote for a tax. That’s what I’m saying, why not try it? If it fails, whatever. Main St prob makes streetcar a staple popular item that I think would passWoodDraw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:23 pmAssuming this mythical money appears, I don’t think the Feds or many people here would find running mixed traffic streetcars all over the place a good use of money.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:02 pm If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18231
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do streetcar extensions in stages. Build segments and let development catch up along those lines. Once that happens, then add another segment or route. Give the concept time to bear fruit and show people how the City has benefited.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
Economies of scale and time. Federal project management is costly. There are benefits to doing 10 or 20 miles at a time instead of 2-3FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:34 pm I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do streetcar extensions in stages. Build segments and let development catch up along those lines. Once that happens, then add another segment or route. Give the concept time to bear fruit and show people how the City has benefited.
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
I say get on with it. Roads get fixed. Buy steel in bulk.
Not rocket science!
Not rocket science!
If you're not on the EDGE, you're taking up TOO MUCH ROOM!
Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion
You can also badly mess up. Mixed traffic streetcars are not a good solution. You need dedicated funding and row.normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:59 pmEconomies of scale and time. Federal project management is costly. There are benefits to doing 10 or 20 miles at a time instead of 2-3FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:34 pm I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do streetcar extensions in stages. Build segments and let development catch up along those lines. Once that happens, then add another segment or route. Give the concept time to bear fruit and show people how the City has benefited.