Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Transportation topics in KC

What route should the third phase of streetcar expansion follow?

Linwood: Main to Michigan(71 Highway)
11
10%
Country Club ROW: UMKC to Brookside/Waldo
24
22%
Country Club ROW: UMKC through Brookside/Waldo to Prospect
14
13%
Linwood: Main to Emanuel Cleaver 2
13
12%
City/County Wide Rail Project
40
36%
Other
9
8%
 
Total votes: 111

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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

normalthings wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:19 pm
Jblanco wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:36 pm Running the streetcar or LRT to Truman is a bad idea, never work, waste of $$.

If you want transit to a Sunday Chiefs game or (a future) World Cup build the new stadium in the West bottoms as ultimately in 10 years that will be the most densely populated neighborhood next to downtown. A 3 mile line up/down that hill on 12th st would be a great new expansion. It could also support a new MLS stadium there in the next decade or 2. Go West! (not east) Stay in the core! Just my 2cents.

Also a stop at 12 & Main would deliver West Bottom residents to a short walk to the new Royals Stadium.
Wouldn't a Gondola actually be a more effective mode than a LRT from CBD to WB
Easy there Mr. Chastain
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

Gondolas are a legit solution, but only with a terrain issue (which is why they're standard at ski resorts and mountainous towns). We are neither and none of our grades are insurmountable for surface transportation like streetcar, light rail or bus.

If by "effective" you mean cost effective per rider, probably not since LRT or streetcar can hold more passengers per vehicle.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:19 pm Gondolas are a legit solution, but only with a terrain issue (which is why they're standard at ski resorts and mountainous towns). We are neither and none of our grades are insurmountable for surface transportation like streetcar, light rail or bus.

If by "effective" you mean cost effective per rider, probably not since LRT or streetcar can hold more passengers per vehicle.
More effective as in can hit the core of WB better while avoiding truck traffic and rail lines.

Capacity per hour vs. price doesn't sound bad either
An aerial lift could cost about half as much per mile to build than the Kansas City streetcar, $25 million vs $50 million, Gunnar said. Gondola cabins range in size from 15 passengers to 35-40 passengers, and a line could carry between 3,000 and 5,000 people per hour.
https://www.startlandnews.com/2021/11/c ... dola-kcmo/
langosta
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by langosta »

A bill introduced in Nebraska to rpvoide $100 million to Omaha to extend their Streetcar to the Airport.

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2023/02/24 ... d-airport/
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by KCPowercat »

langosta wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:12 pm A bill introduced in Nebraska to rpvoide $100 million to Omaha to extend their Streetcar to the Airport.

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2023/02/24 ... d-airport/
Shouldn't this go in some Omaha thread?
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by langosta »

KCPowercat wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:08 pm
langosta wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:12 pm A bill introduced in Nebraska to rpvoide $100 million to Omaha to extend their Streetcar to the Airport.

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2023/02/24 ... d-airport/
Shouldn't this go in some Omaha thread?
Sorry I forgot to provide my “why is this related”


Imagine how much discussions on East/West or NKC would change if we had a state that even put a tiny amount towards transit. $100 or 200 million would seal the deal for East/West and we can’t even get that.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by dukuboy1 »

langosta wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:11 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:08 pm
langosta wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:12 pm A bill introduced in Nebraska to rpvoide $100 million to Omaha to extend their Streetcar to the Airport.

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2023/02/24 ... d-airport/
Shouldn't this go in some Omaha thread?
Sorry I forgot to provide my “why is this related”


Imagine how much discussions on East/West or NKC would change if we had a state that even put a tiny amount towards transit. $100 or 200 million would seal the deal for East/West and we can’t even get that.
good for Omaha, and nice it gets the focus of the entire state. But the whole population of NEB is slightly less than the KC Metro. KC is always living in the shadow of STL or just has to deal with its influence at the government level. Imagine if KC was the only major metro in MO. with a population of like 5 million. We would be Chicago West, so to speak
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by shinatoo »

dukuboy1 wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:48 pm
langosta wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:11 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:08 pm

Shouldn't this go in some Omaha thread?
Sorry I forgot to provide my “why is this related”


Imagine how much discussions on East/West or NKC would change if we had a state that even put a tiny amount towards transit. $100 or 200 million would seal the deal for East/West and we can’t even get that.
good for Omaha, and nice it gets the focus of the entire state. But the whole population of NEB is slightly less than the KC Metro. KC is always living in the shadow of STL or just has to deal with its influence at the government level. Imagine if KC was the only major metro in MO. with a population of like 5 million. We would be Chicago West, so to speak
We would be nowhere close to Chicago, it's 11 million people. More like Minneapolis/St. Paul, which would be perfect. Oh, what could have been? Columbia/Jeff City.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by dukuboy1 »

sorry, didn't mean to sell Chicago short. But yes Minneapolis/St. Paul for sure or around that 5 mill sweet spot
langosta
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by langosta »

STL approved advancing their proposed new LRT line to federal grant.

$7.4 million to get the plans ready, paid for by the city. Local funding for the project to come from an already approved expansion tax.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by langosta »

Wish this was us!

STL approved advancing their proposed new 6 mile LRT line to federal grant. $7.4 million to get the plans ready, paid for by the city. Local funding for the project to come from an already approved expansion tax.



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alejandro46
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

langosta wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:53 pm Wish this was us!

STL approved advancing their proposed new 6 mile LRT line to federal grant. $7.4 million to get the plans ready, paid for by the city. Local funding for the project to come from an already approved expansion tax.



Image
I was in STL this weekend and walked around dt a bit. Generally nice, with minimal litter, streets well kept and lots of great old historic buildings. I did drive by the Lux Living block off S Kingshighway & I64 and my eyes were immediately drawn to the damage on one of the buildings.

This seems like a great project and honestly something KC should aspire to. Although we missed out on the federal funds that originally built Metrolink, we can avoid mistakes that result in lower ridership and do what's best for KC as compared to our current transit situation they are decades ahead of KC in terms of both network size and regional cooperation.
Last edited by alejandro46 on Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Is this not just a streetcar/tram?
langosta
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by langosta »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:40 am Is this not just a streetcar/tram?
Dedicated ROW entire length. Grade separated segments in the original proposal - I think that’s now Phase 2. Higher capacity and higher speed with fewer stops.
Last edited by langosta on Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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alejandro46
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

langosta wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:55 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:40 am Is this not just a streetcar/tram?
Dedicated ROW. Grade separated segments in the original proposal - I think that’s now Phase 2. Higher capacity and higher speed with fewer stops.
Yes, more like Phoenix and Houston's Light Rail system than KC, Portland, Detroit streetcars.

https://www.ewgateway.org/transportatio ... metrolink/
langosta
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by langosta »

langosta wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:55 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:40 am Is this not just a streetcar/tram?
Dedicated ROW entire length. Grade separated segments in the original proposal - I think that’s now Phase 2. Higher capacity and higher speed with fewer stops.
This is what I had Main Street would be and still hope east/west will be
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smh
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by smh »

langosta wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:02 am
langosta wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:55 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:40 am Is this not just a streetcar/tram?
Dedicated ROW entire length. Grade separated segments in the original proposal - I think that’s now Phase 2. Higher capacity and higher speed with fewer stops.
This is what I had Main Street would be and still hope east/west will be
Agreed. I continue to think curb running in Phase 2 will prove to be a real pain for the system's usefulness. I hope to be wrong.
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Jblanco
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Jblanco »

I like the Independence Avenue route.
I know it was voted down years ago but times change.
It is easily the densest option, ties best into downtown and supports downtown the best.

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langosta
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by langosta »

Jblanco wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:22 am I like the Independence Avenue route.
I know it was voted down years ago but times change.
It is easily the densest option, ties best into downtown and supports downtown the best.

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I like the route but want to see North Loop and Highway 9 fixed before we build a rail line
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by KC_Ari »

Having one of the stations here, or just forking it into the RM loop with a reconnected Independence Ave does seem essential.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kansa ... 20vMDRmX2Q
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