Downtown New Residential Units

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by DColeKC »

Highlander wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:48 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:01 am
phuqueue wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:47 am No. But then, it isn't fair to lose your home because somebody with more money came in and decided they wanted it either.
I think this point here is the main issue that the board overall (myself included) has with KCT and their methods. The goal of development should never be to displace residents who currently live in the area. The recent actions by KCT, though, are actively stifling market rate & “luxury” (which is really just at the top end of market rate) units from being constructed, primarily developments that would exist in place of empty lots.

You hit the point previous as well that people are going to continue moving back into the city, and yes, it’s usually people with money. Shouldn’t the goal be to flesh out units and housing that those folks will seek out, so as to not drive long time residents out of the neighborhood? I feel as though that’s the biggest issue with this discourse though, is that both sides of the argument just talk past each other, but both sides would like a similar outcome (given I don’t agree that socialized housing is the best solution to this problem as KCT does, but I digress)
The goal may not to be to displace residents but it's often the reality. Without sounding unsympathetic with those displaced, I do not necessarily see that as a bad thing - particularly in Kansas City. The reality for Kansas City is that during the 1960's, people who had money moved out in mass leaving a large core of poverty and neighborhoods in disrepair behind. That also left Kansas City with an increasingly non-dense urban core since that time with only a turn around on a modest scale in the last 10 years or so. KC remains probably one of the least gentrified major cities in the US. It ultimately doesn't benefit the people that comprise KC tenants for the bulk of the urban core to remain a swath of low-income housing; it discourages investment which discourages jobs and wage growth, new investment in residential properties, density - just about everything that makes an urban core work. I understand their POV but their methods to achieve what they want are most likely going to be counter-productive in the long term. The point should be to bring some of the wealth that exists in the burbs back into KCMO so that people there can benefit from better wages much closer to their home.

Even if building publicly funded affordable housing is the answer, the city would be in a much better place to accomplish this with a healthier economy and tax base. Bringing people and wealth back into the core is not a bad thing.
Couldn't agree more with this post.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

I think the biggest oxy-moron is that the Council sells our city as super affordable, but then also bends over for KC Tenants that it's not affordable.

Huh?

They need to pick a lane. I don't think KC is the super affordable metro that it used to be. But come on...either learn economics where we build supply or go move 50 miles out of the metro. That's about all I can say on those complaints.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by phuqueue »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:15 pm
phuqueue wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:53 pm Go tell somebody who can't afford their rent not to worry because we have the highest GDP, I'm sure that will solve everything.

The point you very explicitly made is that affordable housing is "necessary" in some places but merely "fair" in KC. I would be interested to know who has decided which is which if not you. Who cares how much space there is to build affordable housing? Is affordable housing actually being built on that space? I mean, according to you, no landlord could afford to do that. And even if they could, ungrateful tenants would complain about this or that, which is apparently as good a reason as any not to do it in the first place.
I should start writing small novels as you do apparently or else you're going to constantly spin my comments into whatever you think I'm saying.

Have you ever been on government assistance? Have you ever lived in section 8 housing or below the poverty line in your lifetime?

Regardless, the fact we have the highest GDP means we have the ability to fix these issues whereas other countries might not. Even the favored countries always mentioned as the best, happiest and on and on have the same public housing and affordable housing issues we do.
It is true that affordability is a growing problem in other countries, and especially in major cities, but much of that is due to speculation and the use of property as a store of wealth. This is why I think the concern about profits in housing is misplaced. On the other hand, I wouldn't say other countries have the same public housing issues we do, there are plenty of places that adequately fund and maintain their public housing and so have much more successful public housing programs than America. Places like Singapore and Vienna immediately come to mind for their robust programs. There are also interesting alternative models for affordability, such as Germany's Tenement Housing Syndicate. What these programs have in common is that they are not worried about whether a landlord is going to make a profit.
Since you're clearly ignorant to the facts, I never said affordable housing isn't a necessity.
DColeKC wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:15 pmThe government and developers have made adjustments like including affordable housing in every new building. I understand this requirement in insanely packed parts of the world like nyc where it’s literally about having enough physical apartments to house the population. But here in KC, we have tons of space and instead it’s been made about fairness, not necessity.
DCole vs. DCole, who will win???
I've not commented on tenant unions being ungrateful or complaining..
DColeKC wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:29 am Of course, if a landlord DID build apartments they could rent for $500-$700 a month, the tenants would than say they're not nice enough, too small and lack amenities.
Round 2!
I said there's no reason to strong arm or force developers of new market rate apartments to include affordable housing options within their new builds in KC because we have the space to required to not only build affordable housing, but do so in a meaningful way. The local, state and federal government could do so much to make building dedicated affordable housing projects actually happen. That's the only way to ensure it will happen and be held to a certain standard that avoids slumlords being in charge.
I agree that the government at all levels could do much more on this (you and I probably disagree on what they can or should do, but that's another thing). I also doubt that requiring developers to include affordable units in their projects is the best way to achieve affordable housing, but it is unfortunately the only thing the government seems interested in trying. It's not enough to say that we have "space" for affordable housing, if there is no plan to actually build affordable housing in that space. I don't really think KCT especially wants to require some number of affordable units in each developer's projects either, I mean, that demand doesn't really appear in their platform (maybe it is implied in their demand for a net gain requirement, but not necessarily). But that's what our policymakers are giving us right now. Maybe you and KCT should join together to demand that the government build new public housing in all of this open space, it seems to be something you can both agree on.
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:14 pm
phuqueue wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:07 pm It's all one metro and ideally these problems would be addressed on a metro-wide basis, but if KCT members don't live in JoCo then they have no leverage over what JoCo does.
yeah, I just disagree with this. Advocacy groups don't have to be founded or have a majority of their members in a municipality to be affective and fight for change. Honestly, for me, it's the major reason I'm against KCT. If their messaging was about creating metro-wide systems that provide housing in all corners of the city, I'd be for them. That they merely are against the lifting up of an area (like Armour) just so they can maintain their cheap rent in a very small part of the city is problematic. That their solution is to have luxury condos designate a few units for those with low taxable income just shows me that they're more about making noise and getting revenge on those they feel are causing their displacement instead of solving a very real issue.
Ok. I don't really know what there is to disagree with, what leverage you think non-residents can exert over elected officials in a different jurisdiction, but ok. Anyway, as I just noted to DCole above, I don't think KCT's "solution" is to set aside a few affordable units in luxury developments, that is the government's solution. And as I think we can all agree, it's not a great one.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by Highlander »

With the completion of Three Light just around the corner, it seems like the only downtown apartments being built are the ones on 22cd Street next to the Freight House (I think we established those are still being worked on). I cannot think of anything else that is even imminent? Is it safe to say the loci of new apartment building in KC has shifted south to the Main Street Corridor? Seems like there are several projects currently under construction and in the works in that corridor while downtown has gone relatively quiet.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by missingkc »

Don't forget River Market. 5th and Main?
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

Highlander wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:33 pm With the completion of Three Light just around the corner, it seems like the only downtown apartments being built are the ones on 22cd Street next to the Freight House (I think we established those are still being worked on). I cannot think of anything else that is even imminent? Is it safe to say the loci of new apartment building in KC has shifted south to the Main Street Corridor? Seems like there are several projects currently under construction and in the works in that corridor while downtown has gone relatively quiet.
City Harvest is the next big one to start soon.

Ashland, Midland, Atlas 303 I think are the next projects to come soon.
Hopefully 14th & Wyandotte comes fast. Same for that one Crossroads tower.

My guess is overall the Royals finally getting approved might stir a bunch of things.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

I'm not sure how many of these are imminent (and some of these are probably at least a couple years out), but here are some projects that I can think of off-hand that I believe are still alive in Downtown (excluding "greater Downtown" and focussing more on the core):

River Market:
Oaks (formerly Ashland)
3rd and Grand
City Harvest (and later the two south corners of 5th and Main).
Atlas 303
413 Deleware

The Loop:
The Midland
AT&T Office conversion
Fashionbilt Lofts
Scarritt Building
14th and Wyandotte
Barney Allis Plaza
9th and Wyandotte
Admiral Lofts
3 Light (UC)
4 Light

Crossroads:
Tracks 215 (UC)
Wonderland (UC)
Freighthouse Village
16th and Broadway
18th and Main
15th and Holmes
Cordish/Sky

I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by FangKC »

Peck's Plaza at 1044 Main (former Missouri Bank & Trust)
31st and Wyandotte on former Trinity Lutheran site
Carnival Building conversion
Ascend at River Market/Defeo Tower project at 3rd and Oak
KCATA 10th and Main apartment project
Muehlebach Hotel apartment conversion
West Bottoms/Somera Road (multi-building repurposing/new construction)
West Bottoms: The Yards II
911 Wyoming
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by langosta »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:38 pm
The Loop:
The Midland under construction
AT&T Office conversion
Fashionbilt Lofts dead
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

langosta wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 5:33 am
KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:38 pm
The Loop:
The Midland under construction
AT&T Office conversion
Fashionbilt Lofts dead
They started construction on the Midland?
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by Cratedigger »

TheUrbanRoo wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 8:33 am
langosta wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 5:33 am
KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:38 pm
The Loop:
The Midland under construction
AT&T Office conversion
Fashionbilt Lofts dead
They started construction on the Midland?
Light interior prep from my understanding
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by Belvidere »

While small, Columbus Park is adding 10 new apartments and townhomes. The first new construction in 13 years.

A slumlord/speculator has finally sold two buildings and that could add six new apartments.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by Eon Blue »

Belvidere wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 10:34 am While small, Columbus Park is adding 10 new apartments and townhomes. The first new construction in 13 years.

A slumlord/speculator has finally sold two buildings and that could add six new apartments.
How do you consider this the first new construction in 13 years? I can think of a few new homes and apartments constructed in just the last 5 years.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by Belvidere »

More than just one-off infill for sale. (You are correct.)

The last block face of townhomes was over a decade ago, if memory serves. I should have specified for sale, not for rent, although the new apartments, I hope, will be nice. The way they are situated, it looks like they will get some good natural light even though it's pretty dense.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by langosta »

Belvidere wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:04 pm More than just one-off infill for sale. (You are correct.)

The last block face of townhomes was over a decade ago, if memory serves. I should have specified for sale, not for rent, although the new apartments, I hope, will be nice. The way they are situated, it looks like they will get some good natural light even though it's pretty dense.
*besides everything else that has been built in the past 13 years*

I'd agree momentum is going in a positive direction but also think the neighborhood fight some of the changes that really need to hapen.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by im2kull »

How many of these projects have been killed off by KCT? How many units of housing and development dollars do you guys think that equates to?
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by missingkc »

I'd have to say none were killed by KCT. They were killed by council people falling over themselves to prove sympathetic to KCT's goals, regardless of how ineffective its approach to increasing affordable housing and protecting renters is. They could have proposed policy changes that would work toward the goals without succumbing to nonsense. The blame lies with the council.
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Re: Downtown New Residential Units

Post by Belvidere »

langosta wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:08 pm
Belvidere wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:04 pm More than just one-off infill for sale. (You are correct.)

The last block face of townhomes was over a decade ago, if memory serves. I should have specified for sale, not for rent, although the new apartments, I hope, will be nice. The way they are situated, it looks like they will get some good natural light even though it's pretty dense.
*besides everything else that has been built in the past 13 years*

I'd agree momentum is going in a positive direction but also think the neighborhood fight some of the changes that really need to hapen.
We've been trying to get development for over 20 years and it's taken us over two years even to get an RFP issued. It's been maddening.

What is the neighborhood fighting that you think we're supposed to accept? Our contract for urban renewal was signed the same time as Beacon Hill or thereabouts. It's not for lack of asking.
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