KCRag Forum

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:21 pm**

If the CBRE reports are right, average Plaza rent went from $20sqft Q1/2017 to $30 recently.

See first post first page...
https://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20274

Then..
https://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?p=595688#p595688

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:35 pm**

Yes, but I think this will bring/is bringing increased vacancy rates in the near future. Perhaps, the owner is fine with that, they’d prefer a 80% rented rate at $30 compared to 97% rented at $20. My thought is that a lower rented percentage will also begin dropping prices. Balancing act. I’d take the consistent burn for a long stretch over slamming on the gas and risking a breakdown.

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:41 pm**

Yes perhaps they could come to some understanding and add in amenities into open spots for a lesser rate in order to be able to drive more traffic total

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 pm**

Riverite wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:06 pmHowever, people will increasingly buy online, unless there is a unique experience or it is dense enough to make it more convenient.

And that’s why I think the Plaza needs to lean into its escapist origins. Maybe even try to get businesses with actual connections to Spain. We’re Seville’s sister city after all. Make the Plaza fun!

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:15 pm**

Running of the Bulls down Nichols Rd? Miller Nichols pushed the Seville thing with the Giralda Tower (The Cheesecake Factory Tower of Enormous Portions?) and the Seville Light Fountain.

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:32 pm**

CBRE says that Plaza vacancy actually improved from 3.1% in Q2/2019 to 2% in Q3. Will be interesting to see next couple quarters with the recent exodus...

Posted: **Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:36 am**

moderne wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:45 pm I lived on 46 Terrace where the empty lots now are. My apartment was in the building right in front of the remnant of fountain in the retaining wall. One bedroom with sunporch, view of west half of plaza for $420.00. Even with new things like Saks the Plaza still functioned as a neighborhood center as well as the locale for high end retail.
As for "Save Our Plaza": when I lived there a college chum from Europe stayed a week. Nearly every morning when I woke, he would be in the sunroom
and would remark how it reminded him of home. Years later, when I told him how that entire street had vanished he said in Europe it would have not happened/could have not happened.

1940 tax photos of the north side of 46th Terrace.

South side of 46th Terrace.

Posted: **Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am**

Wow, Fang, thanks for the photos. Looks like my old sun porch was still just a porch before windows were put in. Will never forget the night one of the windows imploded(but did not break) the night of the explosion at the south KC 71 highway work site. The sound wave traversed the city and came right up the hill. Ma Barker and her boys were said to have lived on the street for a period but I never was able to find out which building.

Posted: **Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:55 am**

Fantastic photos fang, thanks. Would love to see the East side repopulated with homes like those.

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2022 3:21 pm**

Bump. Vote or change vote above, will send thread to Plaza owners.

Posted: **Sat May 07, 2022 10:19 am**

Two cents' worth: The residential base will support the neighborhood.

High-end and mid-range, high-density properties will equip the retail/commercial area with an audience.

Restaurants, boutique shops (unique, eclectic high-end) would be anchored by the residential base and their visitors.

Hence, the prospect of upscale residential towers gains my support.

Posted: **Sat May 07, 2022 2:58 pm**

Nice to see two tower cranes just north of the Plaza working on dense residential projects. The North Plaza neighborhood is probably the most rapidly gentrifying area I've seen in KC, at least one that covers a fairly large area. A lot of vacant space remains to add more and some subpar smaller buildings could be replaced increasing density even more. It would be very nice to see that corner lot between Madison and Roanoke finally developed as there is a lot of wasted space associated with the Plaza West development.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:41 pm**

I think it needs to be a mix of both options 2 and 3.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:33 pm**

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:41 pm I think it needs to be a mix of both options 2 and 3.

Agreed. Pedestrianized space would be nice, but honesty lighter eat options would be solid too. Took a buddy around down there when he was in town, and honestly it was really hard to find a quick lunch place down there. Ended up getting a full meal at Buca because not much else was around

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:12 pm**

So spent some time just exploring KC on this last trip, driving walking etc with my son who has become quite the urban planner type (live in DC, travels Europe just to enjoy their cities etc).

As we walked around the plaza we had some observations.

The Plaza needs help. It’s just not doing all that well. I mean how much square footage on the plaza is now Rally House? It’s a nice tenant but it shows how much things have changed. Rally House feels like Spirt Halloween leasing old strip malls. Theater gone, starbucks is even gone. Very few cars, people or pedestrians. It’s just not a vibrant area anymore. I’m sure like most of KC's urban core, it can get busy at times but it should be somewhat busy all the time simply based on the density of the area and over all appeal of the area. I’m not saying Rally House shouldn’t be on the plaza at all though.

Has there ever by any thought of doing a loop around the plaza with the streetcar similar to the loop around the River Market? I know it’s too late but it could still be added. That alone would bring a lot more activity to the area. I’m sure Main is close enough, but directly serving the plaza like that could have really changed the district.

One thing we thought about was all the parking. So much parking. Street parking, parking garages behind nearly every structure etc. All the office towers have underground garages that are barely used. The plaza needs to remove most of the street parking and widen the sidewalks. Especially on Nichols. Make people park in the garages. I mean most are free which is totally unheard of in nearly any urban area in the country, so there should not be a problem. Even the suburbs around here in DC have all structured parking in their dense areas with very limited street parking. The street row in the plaza area is way too wide with almost no regards to pedestrians.

I know I have mentioned this many times along with others here, but Nichols desperately needs to be pedestrian plaza/corridor with a focus on restaurants etc that can take advantage of those wider sidewalks I mentioned.

Need to bring back a theater in some shape or form. Preferably a higher end theater like a modern Alamo or something.

Need to allow residential construction on top of and behind the retail. Even 3-5 stories. Something besides fake facades and parking.

Why is there not a frequent bus that goes from the Plaza to Westport? Broadway or SW Tfwy needs a high quality high frequency bus route.

Just a few thoughts. The Plaza is still a great area, but the city really needs to figure out a way to modernize it. It's just way too far behind the times.

The Plaza has the bones to be more like Bern or something similar.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:36 pm**

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:12 pm So spent some time just exploring KC on this last trip, driving walking etc with my son who has become quite the urban planner type (live in DC, travels Europe just to enjoy their cities etc).

As we walked around the plaza we had some observations.

The Plaza needs help. It’s just not doing all that well. I mean how much square footage on the plaza is now Rally House? It’s a nice tenant but it shows how much things have changed. Rally House feels like Spirt Halloween leasing old strip malls. Theater gone, starbucks is even gone. Very few cars, people or pedestrians. It’s just not a vibrant area anymore. I’m sure like most of KC's urban core, it can get busy at times but it should be somewhat busy all the time simply based on the density of the area and over all appeal of the area. I’m not saying Rally House shouldn’t be on the plaza at all though.

Has there ever by any thought of doing a loop around the plaza with the streetcar similar to the loop around the River Market? I know it’s too late but it could still be added. That alone would bring a lot more activity to the area. I’m sure Main is close enough, but directly serving the plaza like that could have really changed the district.

One thing we thought about was all the parking. So much parking. Street parking, parking garages behind nearly every structure etc. All the office towers have underground garages that are barely used. The plaza needs to remove most of the street parking and widen the sidewalks. Especially on Nichols. Make people park in the garages. I mean most are free which is totally unheard of in nearly any urban area in the country, so there should not be a problem. Even the suburbs around here in DC have all structured parking in their dense areas with very limited street parking. The street row in the plaza area is way too wide with almost no regards to pedestrians.

I know I have mentioned this many times along with others here, but Nichols desperately needs to be pedestrian plaza/corridor with a focus on restaurants etc that can take advantage of those wider sidewalks I mentioned.

Need to bring back a theater in some shape or form. Preferably a higher end theater like a modern Alamo or something.

Need to allow residential construction on top of and behind the retail. Even 3-5 stories. Something besides fake facades and parking.

Why is there not a frequent bus that goes from the Plaza to Westport? Broadway or SW Tfwy needs a high quality high frequency bus route.

Just a few thoughts. The Plaza is still a great area, but the city really needs to figure out a way to modernize it. It's just way too far behind the times.

The Plaza has the bones to be more like Bern or something similar.

Agreed, though on the streetcar front I'd suggest a loop would inhibit future extensions of the line (in any direction). Would focus energy instead on making the pedestrian connection between streetcar station and Plaza as frictionless as possible.

EDIT: Great post, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:45 pm**

The Plaza still gets alot of foot traffic daily. The stores are fine. They just need to make a pedestrian-only street and convert the tennis courts into development.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:07 pm**

Why is a theatre needed?

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:08 pm**

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:45 pm The Plaza still gets alot of foot traffic daily. The stores are fine. They just need to make a pedestrian-only street and convert the tennis courts into development.

It's not near as busy as it used to be based on my past 5-6 visits to KC. It still probably has the most in KC though outside Sundays in the River Market or something like that.

And I would agree that developing the tennis courts and connecting the streetcar to the core of the plaza with a nice pedestrian friendly corridor would be great. Not sure it has much of a chance of ever happening though.

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:07 pm Why is a theatre needed?

It's not "needed", I just think it would help bring more people into the area and there is plenty of room for one.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:15 pm**

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:08 pm
UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:45 pm The Plaza still gets alot of foot traffic daily. The stores are fine. They just need to make a pedestrian-only street and convert the tennis courts into development.
It's not near as busy as it used to be based on my past 5-6 visits to KC. It still probably has the most in KC though outside Sundays in the River Market or something like that.

And I would agree that developing the tennis courts and connecting the streetcar to the core of the plaza with a nice pedestrian friendly corridor would be great. Not sure it has much of a chance of ever happening though.

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:07 pm Why is a theatre needed?
It's not "needed", I just think it would help bring more people into the area and there is plenty of room for one.

I think I see what you are getting at.

I would suggest an activity center like golf swing suites or soccer kick would be best. Downtown could really use onw

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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?

Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?

Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?