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Patriot Highway

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:03 pm
by normalthings
http://www.leavenworthtimes.com/news/20 ... ot-highway

I just read this article about a proposed $4 Billion Private Toll Beltway proposed for the KC area. Construction would require eminent domain. I also read that the highway would include a light rail system. Does anyone know anything else this road? It sounds completely unnecessary and I am surprised we haven't heard more about it.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:13 am
by flyingember
They want a private company to buy the land to cut cost.

They want to build in wifi, car charging and heat the road.

The terms "value engineered" and "public funded" seems way more likely than anything they said.

Claims like this is why you see septic tank cleanout trucks with the phrase "contains political promises" on the back.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:51 am
by brewcrew1000
I have a feeling that privatizing our public infrastructure is going to be a big thing going forward and think its going to screw us over. This administration is already pushing for it.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:24 am
by kcjak
This project may be a little ambitious, but doesn't it make sense to look at a privately financed tollway as an option for the future? Just because most of us on here are for sensible urban development, it doesn't mean that suburban sprawl will cease and I'd rather have planning and land purchasing begin now rather than in 10-15 years when development has made it more difficult and expensive.

Toll roads are the norm for funding new construction in Texas and other other states - it's only a matter of time before they arrive in our area.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:51 am
by flyingember
kcjak wrote:This project may be a little ambitious, but doesn't it make sense to look at a privately financed tollway as an option for the future? Just because most of us on here are for sensible urban development, it doesn't mean that suburban sprawl will cease and I'd rather have planning and land purchasing begin now rather than in 10-15 years when development has made it more difficult and expensive.

Toll roads are the norm for funding new construction in Texas and other other states - it's only a matter of time before they arrive in our area.
Private toll roads aren't always a good solution, especially if they're built with rosy projections.

http://kxan.com/2016/03/02/company-that ... ankruptcy/

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:55 pm
by phuqueue
If it's more expensive and difficult in 10-15 years, it's less likely to happen then. If you're against it happening in general, you should just be against doing it, period. Suburban sprawl isn't some inevitable force of nature, it's an economic decision, and one thing KC doesn't need is yet more roads making sprawl an appealing option. I am, however, all for slapping tolls onto existing highways, although this is neither legally nor politically feasible.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:57 pm
by Highlander
kcjak wrote:Toll roads are the norm for funding new construction in Texas and other other states - it's only a matter of time before they arrive in our area.
Toll roads are all over Houston. The first one (Beltway 8 ) had toll booths which allowed all cars, both those with and without EZ Tag, to have access. Getting on Beltway 8 at most times without EZ Tag defeated the purpose as the lines at the multiple toll booths could reach 5-10 minutes and more each. Subsequent toll roads like Westpark Tollway and Grand Parkway are EZ Tag only. In most cases, these have been built too into areas that needed them 10 years previously and are already undersized for the traffic they carry. But the major problem is the limited access to EZ tag holders only. Grand Parkway on the south side of Houston has a crazy system where the overpasses require EZ Tag forcing to the drivers without the tag to exit before every overpass and then re-enter. Try to explain directions to one's home to an out-of-towner who cannot access the toll system.

Nonetheless, I'd rather have toll roads than no road at all but I much prefer the non-libertarian open-to-all option.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:48 am
by kcjak
Highlander wrote:
kcjak wrote:Toll roads are the norm for funding new construction in Texas and other other states - it's only a matter of time before they arrive in our area.
Toll roads are all over Houston. The first one (Beltway 8 ) had toll booths which allowed all cars, both those with and without EZ Tag, to have access. Getting on Beltway 8 at most times without EZ Tag defeated the purpose as the lines at the multiple toll booths could reach 5-10 minutes and more each. Subsequent toll roads like Westpark Tollway and Grand Parkway are EZ Tag only. In most cases, these have been built too into areas that needed them 10 years previously and are already undersized for the traffic they carry. But the major problem is the limited access to EZ tag holders only. Grand Parkway on the south side of Houston has a crazy system where the overpasses require EZ Tag forcing to the drivers without the tag to exit before every overpass and then re-enter. Try to explain directions to one's home to an out-of-towner who cannot access the toll system.

Nonetheless, I'd rather have toll roads than no road at all but I much prefer the non-libertarian open-to-all option.
But don't the toll roads for those without EZ Tag or TxTag all rely on a video monitoring system now that doesn't require payments at toll booths? We took a toll road in Austin last month in order to bypass the downtown gridlock and just got the bill ($13 for maybe 15 miles) mailed to us. I can't imagine being a visitor to Houston and trying to navigate tolled overpasses!

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:30 am
by grovester
We ran into those last time down and were completely confused about what we were supposed to do.

Actually a pretty great way to handle.

I still think the bigger issue is incentivizing and accelerating sprawl.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:53 pm
by Highlander
kcjak wrote:
Highlander wrote:
kcjak wrote:Toll roads are the norm for funding new construction in Texas and other other states - it's only a matter of time before they arrive in our area.
Toll roads are all over Houston. The first one (Beltway 8 ) had toll booths which allowed all cars, both those with and without EZ Tag, to have access. Getting on Beltway 8 at most times without EZ Tag defeated the purpose as the lines at the multiple toll booths could reach 5-10 minutes and more each. Subsequent toll roads like Westpark Tollway and Grand Parkway are EZ Tag only. In most cases, these have been built too into areas that needed them 10 years previously and are already undersized for the traffic they carry. But the major problem is the limited access to EZ tag holders only. Grand Parkway on the south side of Houston has a crazy system where the overpasses require EZ Tag forcing to the drivers without the tag to exit before every overpass and then re-enter. Try to explain directions to one's home to an out-of-towner who cannot access the toll system.

Nonetheless, I'd rather have toll roads than no road at all but I much prefer the non-libertarian open-to-all option.
But don't the toll roads for those without EZ Tag or TxTag all rely on a video monitoring system now that doesn't require payments at toll booths? We took a toll road in Austin last month in order to bypass the downtown gridlock and just got the bill ($13 for maybe 15 miles) mailed to us. I can't imagine being a visitor to Houston and trying to navigate tolled overpasses!
Beltway 8 in Houston still has toll booths. At least they did as of November when I left the great hellhole on the Gulf Coast. I was just in Austin last week - an overall much nicer place than Houston.

Yes, you get a bill in the mail if you do not have EZ Tag but it is about 10 X what you would pay with an EZ Tag. By comparison, I paid like $6 for the 40 mile trip to Bush Airport from my house and that's using Westbark Tollway, Beltway 8 and the very optional Hardy Tollway.

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:15 am
by brewcrew1000
So are toll roads privately plowed when it snows or are the only private toll roads really in places where snow is unlikely

Re: Patriot Highway

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:20 am
by Highlander
brewcrew1000 wrote:So are toll roads privately plowed when it snows or are the only private toll roads really in places where snow is unlikely
The ones I know of are not private entities. They are patrolled and maintained by local government so I suspect they are also plowed in the same manner.