Streetcar to the riverfront

Transportation topics in KC
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by WoodDraw »

Okay can we please all stop to comment on that dog park please? I approve and can’t imagine such a landmark being displaced.

(Never been there or seen it before in my life)
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

WoodDraw wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:26 pm Okay can we please all stop to comment on that dog park please? I approve and can’t imagine such a landmark being displaced.

(Never been there or seen it before in my life)
Obviously avoiding the dog park, just to clarify, I’m just trash at drawing on my phone
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by normalthings »

*as anything but neighorhood streetcar*
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

normalthings wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:30 pm *as anything but neighorhood streetcar*
Neighborhood SC through dense neighborhood…then transition to LRT style once outside of dense neighborhood area, if extending SC.
User avatar
grovester
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4560
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
Location: KC Metro

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by grovester »

Not sure why anyone would want anything but a neighborhood streetcar?
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by normalthings »

It’s mostly 1-2 floor warehouses and industry with some 1-3 floor residential to the north. I want to see something that can be LRT in the future
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

normalthings wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:50 pm It’s mostly 1-2 floor warehouses and industry with some 1-3 floor residential to the north. I want to see something that can be LRT in the future
I mean, Main was pretty underutilized space in 2014 too.
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by WoodDraw »

I think we need to stop building shared track anymore. It’sa people mover, but once you get outside people, you need speed.

If not, just run buses
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by TheLastGentleman »

I could've sworn someone on this site said they make vehicles for our kind of system that are effectively light rail cars and can reach higher speeds
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by WoodDraw »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:52 pm I could've sworn someone on this site said they make vehicles for our kind of system that are effectively light rail cars and can reach higher speeds
The caf website says they have a maximum speed of 70 kmh, which would be roughly, what, 40mph?

No idea if they could go more than that if they were running on dedicated rail but I’m guessing the answering is probably.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by normalthings »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:26 pm
normalthings wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:50 pm It’s mostly 1-2 floor warehouses and industry with some 1-3 floor residential to the north. I want to see something that can be LRT in the future
I mean, Main was pretty underutilized space in 2014 too.
I don’t think we should be building more curb-running slow stuff. Mainstreet is way too easily slowed or stopped by traffic, parked vehicles, etc. I mean I would like to see main replaced in 20-30 years by a line on Grand or something.

I have always said Main Street south was curb running is a mistake imho. Obviously others disagreed and had other priorities (parking & turn lanes).
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:52 pm I could've sworn someone on this site said they make vehicles for our kind of system that are effectively light rail cars and can reach higher speeds
Yes. I’m not certain if these are able to operate at higher speeds, but they have the modularity and length of LRT vehicles. CAF also has a larger variety of vehicles outside of the Urbos family.
Image
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

normalthings wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:58 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:26 pm
normalthings wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:50 pm It’s mostly 1-2 floor warehouses and industry with some 1-3 floor residential to the north. I want to see something that can be LRT in the future
I mean, Main was pretty underutilized space in 2014 too.
I don’t think we should be building more curb-running slow stuff. Mainstreet is way too easily slowed or stopped by traffic, parked vehicles, etc. I mean I would like to see main replaced in 20-30 years by a line on Grand or something.

I have always said Main Street south was curb running is a mistake imho. Obviously others disagreed and had other priorities (parking & turn lanes).
I don’t disagree. If we are to keep curb running and keep expanding that way, then we need to decide wether those roads will become transit/bike/ped only or not. Otherwise the system won’t allow for anything more than localized services. I’m personally of the opinion that if we keep it the way it currently is, then LRT systems will need to be separated.
TheUrbanRoo
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:39 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

I don't know all the logistics behind this subject but we just gotta get a line to airport. I don't care how it happens, but once Main St. expansion is completed that's the only other future rail I'll care about much (for any practical use). If we can do that then we can truly go car-less here for tourists.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by normalthings »

UMKC Roo wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:43 am I don't know all the logistics behind this subject but we just gotta get a line to airport. I don't care how it happens, but once Main St. expansion is completed that's the only other future rail I'll care about much (for any practical use). If we can do that then we can truly go car-less here for tourists.
I think maybe 10% of streetcar users are tourists per KCstreetcar. So it seems to me that building lines for the other 90%, locals, is the better use of funds.
TheUrbanRoo
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:39 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

normalthings wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:52 am
UMKC Roo wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:43 am I don't know all the logistics behind this subject but we just gotta get a line to airport. I don't care how it happens, but once Main St. expansion is completed that's the only other future rail I'll care about much (for any practical use). If we can do that then we can truly go car-less here for tourists.
I think maybe 10% of streetcar users are tourists per KCstreetcar. So it seems to me that building lines for the other 90%, locals, is the better use of funds.
I also think they should just start shooting a line to KU Med now and figure out eastern expansion while they're doing that, so we can get ahead on starting with that extension.
User avatar
smh
Supporter
Posts: 4303
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by smh »

I still don't really understand the utility of streetcar to the riverfront. I am trying to keep an open mind and would count myself among the top streetcar boosters, but it feels like the cost/benefit just isn't there. An expensive extension for limited ridership gains that will impact frequency north of the river in the future (probably) and complicate scheduling south of the river.

On another note, I hope that any future North Oak extension (aside: this seems like a very distant prospect) will insist on exclusive ROW. Streetcar is a great way to move people but if it is in a shared lane over a long distance reliability will suffer which will impact ridership. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about operations along the Main Street extension, but worried that even on that extension we've created a system with too much shared lane mileage to really gain the advantages we desire from a rail system.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by normalthings »

smh wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:27 pm I still don't really understand the utility of streetcar to the riverfront. I am trying to keep an open mind and would count myself among the top streetcar boosters, but it feels like the cost/benefit just isn't there. An expensive extension for limited ridership gains that will impact frequency north of the river in the future (probably) and complicate scheduling south of the river.

On another note, I hope that any future North Oak extension (aside: this seems like a very distant prospect) will insist on exclusive ROW. Streetcar is a great way to move people but if it is in a shared lane over a long distance reliability will suffer which will impact ridership. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about operations along the Main Street extension, but worried that even on that extension we've created a system with too much shared lane mileage to really gain the advantages we desire from a rail system.
A swift NKC is far worse imho
User avatar
FlippantCitizen
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:29 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by FlippantCitizen »

UMKC Roo wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:43 am I don't know all the logistics behind this subject but we just gotta get a line to airport. I don't care how it happens, but once Main St. expansion is completed that's the only other future rail I'll care about much (for any practical use). If we can do that then we can truly go car-less here for tourists.
Rail to the airport is way far down on my wishlist. That's a lot of investment and a lot of track miles. Would much rather see those resources go towards building a more robust system in the urban core. It's not really that big of a deal to Uber/Taxi to the airport at least IMO. I'd keep dishing for an Uber to MCI for the rest of my life if the trade-off was getting the equivalent track miles of tram line laid in the urban core.
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Streetcar to the riverfront

Post by TheLastGentleman »

I keep seeing the KCI rail idea shot down, but it makes me confused. Are other airport rail systems not well used? Was Denver's a waste?
Post Reply