Downtown office vacancy

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Cratedigger
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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brewcrew1000 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:55 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:29 pm Just my observation, but the highest correlation I see for growing a city is you have street retail/restaurants, walkability and connectivity. You can have a town with no corporate presence at all, but if you have those three things people will come flocking. I see it all the time when I look at small cities & towns.

That’s why I’m pounding my fist on the table for the south loop cap every day here (highly improves walkability & connectivity) which I think will be more of a growth factor for us than much else.
^This
This is what i was trying to get at, Dallas and Houston have huge downtowns with tons of skyscrapers and lots of things to do, lots of hotels but i would be willing to bet both of those downtown populations are smaller then KC
Dallas might be the worst biking city in the nation right now, but has been getting a lot better in terms of walkability. Honestly, I think it's a model for KC in a lot of ways. Capped the highway for greenspace and to encourage development in an underdeveloped part of the Urban Core, improved public transit including a free trolley service in a small part of downtown/uptown, built up downtown as a place that isn't just active from 8-5 and has been successful in attracting business even as companies move to the suburbs as well.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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freedog wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:39 pm
brewcrew1000 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:55 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:29 pm Just my observation, but the highest correlation I see for growing a city is you have street retail/restaurants, walkability and connectivity. You can have a town with no corporate presence at all, but if you have those three things people will come flocking. I see it all the time when I look at small cities & towns.

That’s why I’m pounding my fist on the table for the south loop cap every day here (highly improves walkability & connectivity) which I think will be more of a growth factor for us than much else.
^This
This is what i was trying to get at, Dallas and Houston have huge downtowns with tons of skyscrapers and lots of things to do, lots of hotels but i would be willing to bet both of those downtown populations are smaller then KC
Dallas might be the worst biking city in the nation right now, but has been getting a lot better in terms of walkability. Honestly, I think it's a model for KC in a lot of ways. Capped the highway for greenspace and to encourage development in an underdeveloped part of the Urban Core, improved public transit including a free trolley service in a small part of downtown/uptown, built up downtown as a place that isn't just active from 8-5 and has been successful in attracting business even as companies move to the suburbs as well.
Agreed. I've always thought our model should be Denver. That's why it annoys me when these guys keep harping about tiny or stagnant growth rust belt cities like St. Louis, Cleveland, Indy, Omaha, Columbus. Why are we comparing ourselves to boring-ass stagnant cities like that? Set our standards to following Denver & Dallas and we'll be on a much smarter path.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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I can’t think of many cities with less character in their building stock, little historic fabric than Denver or Dallas. Both of those cities seem to be modern day boom towns. I would take their populations and corporate presence over ours, which is fairly non-existent.
Last edited by beautyfromashes on Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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KC doesn't need to model after any city but given KC's situation of lacking enough corporate presence, risk taking developers and many billionaires, maybe the Portland smart mid-rise infill approach is the direction to head. I like Denver on paper and they've accomplished a great deal but it feels like a fabricated sim-city, lacking the depth that KC has. Dallas even less so than Denver. KC needs to recognize its strengths/weaknesses and take the steps it can actually accomplish, not try to become other plastic cities that have resources KC simply does not.

Focus on the small things like ensuring developers contribute to a contiguous pedestrian flow from River Market to Plaza and it will become a kickass place to live/work. You don't need mega corps, billionaires or tall buildings to accomplish this, just incremental growth that is smartly integrated and well thought out from one block to the next. The streetcar is the catalyst, the most significant first step.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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earthling wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:06 pm KC doesn't need to model after any city but given KC's situation of lacking enough corporate presence, risk taking developers and many billionaires, maybe the Portland smart mid-rise infill approach is the direction to head. I like Denver on paper and they've accomplished a great deal but it feels like a fabricated sim-city, lacking the depth that KC has. Dallas even less so than Denver. KC needs to recognize its strengths/weaknesses and take the steps it can actually accomplish, not try to become other plastic cities that have resources KC simply does not.

Focus on the small things like ensuring developers contribute to a contiguous pedestrian flow from River Market to Plaza and it will become a kickass place to live/work. You don't need mega corps, billionaires or tall buildings to accomplish this, just incremental growth that is smartly integrated and well thought out from one block to the next. The streetcar is the catalyst, the most significant first step.
It seems to me the city growth is less a result of corporate growth instead of corporate growth following other factors. It almost seems like a cities growth is determined by a "cool factor" and that music and arts and vibrancy of a growing youth population is a bigger factor. Instead of throwing huge amounts of money for corporate relocation, focus on the things that draw young people. Build a better UMKC. Continue with streetcar. Music festivals. Get First Fridays going again.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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I agree that "economic growth" doesn't seem to be the cure-all for bad urbanism that it might seem. It's concerning that significant portions of downtown denver still look like this despite being a hot market for some time now. I understand they've made tremendous progress compared to the ruins it once was, but the fact that sections of downtowns of even successful cities are still effectively amputated is a bad sign for every middle american city. This is something the coasts and the rest of the world, regardless of economic status, have us beat at.

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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:40 pm I can’t think of many cities with less character in their building stock, little historic fabric than Denver or Dallas. Both of those cities seem to be modern day bo towns. I would take their populations and corporate presence over ours, which is fairly non-existent.
Beautyfromashes, I probably agree with your takes more than any other person I've seen since joining Rag. But I have to disagree with this one. I have no idea about Dallas culture. But Denver does a solid job of intertwining the Native American and frontier history into some of their downtown shops and stores. I really enjoyed it. I also don't get why there's so much hate on this site against flashy buildings and such a preference for old brick. I just don't see the appeal unless you're an old city like NYC or Boston where it's truly historic.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

Post by beautyfromashes »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:18 am I also don't get why there's so much hate on this site against flashy buildings and such a preference for old brick.
A truly great city has a mix of both and those lacking a good stock of the historic, like Dallas and especially Denver, have a feeling of being somewhat false.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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The simple answer is that cities with long-term appeal have layers of history, culture, and architecture. There is nothing wrong with new buildings. But it's the mix of eras, materials, textures, styles that tell the story of a city. Many cities that have a "soul"-- if you will -- also have a patina to them. The doorways and lobbies of art nouveau Paris or Vienna are much more interesting visually than those of most new structures in any city.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/29+Av ... d2.3010068
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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You know, in todays world, you could really make the argument that "getting corporate HQ's" doesn't really matter anymore for downtown with the advent of everything being remote work. Which is probably good for KC. In that world, we get screwed and every good HQ goes everywhere but here and therefore alot of our talent gets sucked out. But now that people can choose where to live, we can retain and gain more residents here.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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^Not 'everything' remote or even most companies but there will be many and highly likely much more remote than in past when dust settles. KC may or may not net benefit given many Cerner and Tmobile jobs are heading either remote or role available in multiple markets. Over 60% of Cerner job postings qualify for remote/WFA, many don't have to live in KC area. It seems there will be a trend of companies allowing employees to decide where they live, not direct most jobs to just an HQ or one certain market. The good news is that KC's labor force is growing at faster rate than US avg, so may not be an issue.

Either way, downtown/urban core don't specifically need 1000+ employee or larger companies. They would be ideal but mix of 10x100 to 100x10 employee companies or satellite offices from mega corps can be just as effective and KC has many magnitudes more of those. Focus on residential for the urban core and the rest will follow incrementally. Ensure it creates a contiguous pedestrian flow from RM to Plaza and companies that appreciate functional urban vibe will bite.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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C2FO just closed a $140 million dollar funding round. Seeing as it is led by a Kemper, who historically seem to have been downtown champions, it's too bad their office is in Leawood.

Candidate for 1400?

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... tform.html
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

Post by CorneliusFB »

They’re in about 35K square feet and paying about $20/sf full service. Not sure if landlord would multi tenant the building for a single floor now and options on another floor to come at some point. Current rate at 1400KC is $38.50/sf full service (plus parking)
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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CorneliusFB wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:37 pm They’re in about 35K square feet and paying about $20/sf full service. Not sure if landlord would multi tenant the building for a single floor now and options on another floor to come at some point. Current rate at 1400KC is $38.50/sf full service (plus parking)
46 Penn?
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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earthling wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:04 am ^Not 'everything' remote or even most companies but there will be many and highly likely much more remote than in past when dust settles. KC may or may not net benefit given many Cerner and Tmobile jobs are heading either remote or role available in multiple markets. Over 60% of Cerner job postings qualify for remote/WFA, many don't have to live in KC area. It seems there will be a trend of companies allowing employees to decide where they live, not direct most jobs to just an HQ or one certain market. The good news is that KC's labor force is growing at faster rate than US avg, so may not be an issue.

Either way, downtown/urban core don't specifically need 1000+ employee or larger companies. They would be ideal but mix of 10x100 to 100x10 employee companies or satellite offices from mega corps can be just as effective and KC has many magnitudes more of those. Focus on residential for the urban core and the rest will follow incrementally. Ensure it creates a contiguous pedestrian flow from RM to Plaza and companies that appreciate functional urban vibe will bite.
There's too much attention being put on fucking Cerner and T-Mobile. When I say "remote should benefit KC" it's because so many jobs that take away our talent can be done from here now, without having to move cities.

For example, I have two friends who are in this situation- one of them was working in Silicon Valley, and he's moved back to KC full time because it's remote. Another friend moved back as well from Chicago because of the same thing. I've heard about plenty of other stories like this. My bet is we actually end up keeping alot of our graduates here living now while they work their job in NY, and still continue to attract a decent amount of out-of-towners.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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^Hard to say what the net gain/loss will be. The Feds need a new data point to measure this. KC's improving labor force way above US avg might support KC could be net gaining remote workers. Cerner and Tmobile are big local employers though with significant WFA remote or multi-location options with new job openings so could have major impact over time, something to note (and easier to track than anectdata).

On local office impact, KC has a decent chunk of tele-customer service and national backoffice insurance jobs, which are trending toward full time WFH as those are generally not collaborative type jobs.
Among non-degree occupations, remote job postings for loan processors were up 818% over the last five years, with remote collections specialists up 741%, sales support assistants up 650% and a 629% increase for loan officers. Technical customer service reps and insurance reps were close behind.

“Most of them are old jobs that are just being converted to remote. Anything that is traditionally done on a computer can just be ‘Let's give people laptops and have them work from home’,” said Mark Hanson, product manager at Emsi Burning Glass. “That is just a maturing of, 'We don’t need to be paying for all these building space, why not just move them remote?'”
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -jobs.html
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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As posted in another thread, here's a sample of office usage access across US based on a keyfob company that tracks 2600 buildings in 138 cities. Seems that 100% means all people/employees issued a keycard/fob and graph represents the % daily access. Just guessing but would think KC burbs are above the top 10 average and downtown KC possibly below the top 10 average...
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Is updated every week or two...
https://www.kastle.com/safety-wellness/ ... k-to-work/
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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Why is that your guess burbs vs downtown?
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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^National trend that burbs have higher return than downtowns (many report this). Just a guess for KC.
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Re: Downtown office vacancy

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Seems like a reasonable guess.
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