OFFICIAL - East Village

[macnw]

Funny how we in KC feel the need to drive the "homeless" out. In thriving downtowns like San Fran/Portland, the "homeless" are part of the urban scene, for better or worse. Talk about negative perceptions!!!!!!!!

[Marreekarr]

Awesome point, macnw.  Frisco hasn't lost any of it's charm because of homelessness.  To the contrary, it wouldn't be the same without those folks adding to the city's character just like the immigrants, asians, the gay community, etc.  Some people in this town seem almost hell bent on gentrifying this place into oblivion.  Imagine Haight-Ashbury without all of the colorful misfits, people with spiked hair, etc.  Chinatown wouldn't be what it is today if some master plan had gone in some time ago and got rid of all the poor Chinese people.  KC needs to look to it's big sister out west and take a few lessons.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Awesome point, macnw.  Frisco hasn't lost any of it's charm because of homelessness.  To the contrary, it wouldn't be the same without those folks adding to the city's character just like the immigrants, asians, the gay community, etc.  Some people in this town seem almost hell bent on gentrifying this place into oblivion.  Imagine Haight-Ashbury without all of the colorful misfits, people with spiked hair, etc.  Chinatown wouldn't be what it is today if some master plan had gone in some time ago and got rid of all the poor Chinese people.  KC needs to look to it's big sister out west and take a few lessons.

Mentioning the bay area and homeless raises a question in my mind regarding downtown KC.  I know from having lived there for awhile that part of what makes Union Square and Telegraph Ave such attractive areas for homeless is the huge concentration of young, liberal-minded pedestrians which makes pan-handeling much more lucrative.  The same could be said for downtown Lawrence.  However, other than the services, what attracts homeless people to downtown KC?  We are still a long way from having a density of young, liberal-mided pedestrians.  I would think the area around UMKC and the plaza would be much much more attractive. 

[KCwriter]

I realize the thread has turned towards what to do with homeless people (for which I have no answer), but I just wanted to ask KCDevin and some of the others why they are opposed to having a high rise hotel bookending the east side of the P&L District? 

I brought up the high rise hotel idea when Grid said he (pretty sure Grid is a guy.  Sorry if I'm wrong!) wanted to see the surface lots between the old AT&T tower and Jackson County Court House filled.  I wasn't talking about parking a 50-story Sheridan Inn and Suites next to the Cherry Street Inn. 

I was talking about bringing in a high quality hotel chain to build a new tower across Oak from the Sprint Center on those lots between AT&T and JCCH.  It would be a great location for a hotel; across the street from our new major sports facility and at the eastern terminus of the Entertainment District.  It would be close to all the government buildings as well; a good spot for visiting government personel and private business leaders who deal with city hall.  Right now, they don't have any good hotel options on that corner of the loop.

[KCwriter]

Also, just a minor observation.  We seem to put a lot on these "young, liberal-minded artists and creative types." 

I just want to interject that cities are made up of all types of people.  Everyone shapes a city; not just the "young, liberal-minded artists," young single professionals, minorities, homosexuals, etc. that everyone seems to idealize in the annals of city redevelopment.  Families and even those hated "conservative-minded" types shape a city.

I have no problem with homeless people being in a city; they've gotta live somewhere to, even if it's on a sidewalk.  And yes, they give a city character.  The Plaza wouldn't be the same without that guy who walks around asking people for "a down payment on a cheeseburger."

At the same time, even the most "liberal minded" person out there has to admit that they'd like the streets downtown to feel at least mildly safe; they don't want to feel like they're gonna get mugged and shot anymore than anyone else.  No suburban family is going to want to walk with their children down Baltimore Avenue to the new library if it seems they will get hit up every few feet for $0.45; an amount that suddenly becomes $5.00 when your wallet comes out.  (I'm speaking from personal experience here.)

So a balance must be found, and that is never an easy task to accomplish.

Anyway, this city and every other one has to be able to market itself and it's attractions to the entire population; including the members of society who chose to live in the suburbs, raise children, go to church, drive a minivan or SUV, and have a lawn to mow and a morgage with it.  We all have a hand in what this city is and what it can become, so don't brush off the elements you disagree with issue-wise as some insignificant, ignorant populace that has no stake in the city.

I'm not writing this in anger.  I'm just making a statement.  Thanks!

[LenexatoKCMO]

KCWriter - well said.  I think you missed my intention.  I meant no reflection on "young liberal minded people"; by most people's definition I would fall into that category myself.  I was simply referring to the demographic that is most likely to contribute money to panhandlers.  It is pretty common for homeless to congregate near universities since there is typically lots of foot traffic and idealistic college students are the most likely to cough up money even though they often may not really have much more than the homeless themselves.  Downtown KC has always seemed like a pretty weak area for panhandling since outside of a few hours of the day there is very little foot traffic and other than a few loft dwellers, very few young idealists running around.  I would think there would be several areas of mid-town that would be far more ripe. 

[knucklehead]

My firm's largest client is in downtown San Fransciso, On Market Street two blocks west of the Bay (for example two blocks from the Hyatt Embarcadero). I have walked from there to Union Square at least 50 times and back in the morning and the evening.

You are correct, the homeless are not a big problem. Many seem to be fairly good natured. I have heard that the SF cops weed out the ones that get insulting.

The big difference however is the street activity in downtown SF. Most of the time there are people on the street, so you feel like you have witnesses which discourages muggings.

The homeless traffic through the east side on the way to the soup kitchens is not an insurmountable deterent to housing values on the east side. All I was saying is that IF people want to reduce the number of homeless people in the east side, a few fairly reasonable steps would go a long way to accomplishing that.

There is a problem with bum on bum crime. I have heard that when social security disability checks come out, there are a log of muggings where someone tries to steal the small amount of money the homeless person gets. The reporting of that crime scares some suburbinites who don't understand that that type of crime isn't a big threat most of us. Reducing the number of homeless in downtown would transfer those crime stats to another area.


Also someone wrote that the bums were attracted to San Francisco because of the concentration of young liberal perople. In my experience the people that give money to the homeless in San Franscisco are the tourists. Especially the Foreign tourists. It is just part of the San Francisco tourist experience to give money to at least one bum. I did a couple of times. but after you have been there more than a few days you just stop. I don't think the natives give that much money to pan handlers. The natives are more likely to give food or let someone sleep in an alley behind their apartment without rousting them out.

[shinatoo]

I always assumed it was because of the pleasent year round weather.

But I have been called an idiot more then once.

[Marreekarr]

A number of people in our culture have risen to the top from rags to riches, some where even homeless or near homeless.  Whopee Goldberg was a street person.  Walt Disney was very desperate just before he left KC.  He used to bathe down at Union Station.  Madonna lived in Manhattan, NY on just $1.50 a day before she was discovered.  Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard and worked out of his dad's garage before Microsoft took off.  And the list goes on and on.  The fact remains that in our civilization a good percentage of the movers and shakers come from the lowest echelons of our society.  It behoves us to treat these people as if they belong, as if they are at least human enough to be allowed to share the same sidewalk as the rest of us.  You never know, the cure for cancer just might reside in the mind of a small child growing up in a homeless shelter for families on skid row.

[shinatoo]

Not to sound like Joemoney but....

Nevermind.

I guess if I think I am going to sound like Joemoney I just shouldn't post.

As you were.

[paisstat]

Very true Marreekarr.  That is precisely why we should provide increasing resources for those individuals to be able to pursue their dreams, something which is not always possible in this country and is in fact more uncommon than common.  There is no doubt that many fields are missing out greatly by ignoring or overlooking this vast untouched supply of minds.

[diamond]

I'm trying to figure out if you guys are being serious or not.

[staubio]

In any case, we need solid programs and resources for the homeless.  We do not need to give money to panhandlers and exacerbate this problem.  Please, people, do NOT give money to panhandlers.  Half of these guys are pros.  The cheeseburger guy makes a living off of it.  There is a guy at the downtown library that has a never-used gas can that he carries around, claiming he ran out of gas and needs a few dollars -- every few days.  I was playing my guitar near Barnes and Noble and the obligatory bum there told me that his last weekend pull was over $300.  That will keep him coming back and scaring off the tourists.

I have no problem with the homeless being around, but I do have a problem with them approaching and freaking out people.  When my parents are in town and I take them out to see the city, being approached by a panhandler sorta freaks them out. 

Good strategies to deal with this:
-Fast food gift certificates.  If they really are hungry, hook them up with the means to eat.  This guarantees they aren't running a con.
-Food.  Try handing an apple to the supposedly hungry people that stand at the exit onto the Broadway Bridge.  Half the time, they'll throw the food back at you.  I even told one panhandler that I was about to grab a sandwich and he was welcome to join me -- I'd cover his.
-Clothing.  If they look tattered or desperate, offer them a clean shirt.  Of course, this will compromise the "legitimate" look.
-Direct the homeless to nearby resources and consider these resources in your charitable giving or volunteering.  There are numerous shelters and programs available.  Nobody should have to panhandle -- unless they are entrepreneuers, in which case you shouldn't give them money. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a bleeding heart, but I don't take kindly to people who take advantage of people's compassion like this.  I also believe strongly in making the urban core a place that everyone can visit and don't appreciate panhandlers.
 

[Tosspot]

The cheeseburger guy makes a living off of it.

Jerry Mazar (sp?). Panhandling extraordinaire and scourge of Kansas City. He's the little turd who my dad chased with a bus one day.

[Marreekarr]

Yeah Crazy Jerry, as many know him, was mostly in it for that attention from strangers.  I heard that he squandered his settlement money so that he could go right back to panhandling.

[myxomatosis]

Yeah Crazy Jerry, as many know him, was mostly in it for that attention from strangers.  I heard that he squandered his settlement money so that he could go right back to panhandling.

As I understand it, he went to Cali for awhile, but he is back.  I know he was on the Plaza for years, but I just saw him last week doing his downpayment for a cheese burger sctick just west of 11th and Baltimore.

[KCPowercat]

very true Michael.  Please do not give money (or actually anything) to the homeless themselves.  They have multiple shelters that can help them out on a daily basis.

I used to give them left overs from a restaurant...but in actuality that is no better.  Help them by giving to the organizations Micahel listed.

[Gladstoner]

How about give them hazard vests and have them pick up litter off the streets and sidewalks around downtown, and then give them something for their trouble. For me, at least, that would be easier and less humiliating than panhandling. The career, "out of gas" panhandlers need not apply.

[Tosspot]

As I understand it, he went to Cali for awhile, but he is back.  I know he was on the Plaza for years, but I just saw him last week doing his downpayment for a cheese burger sctick just west of 11th and Baltimore.

I heard the little fucker went to Florida, but who knows. He's probably been all over the continental US whenever KC's weather seemed unpalatable and unconducive to a thriving pan-handling franchise.

[cdschofield]

I heard the little fucker went to Florida, but who knows. He's probably been all over the continental US whenever KC's weather seemed unpalatable and unconducive to a thriving pan-handling franchise.

I ran into him in San Francisco several years ago. He said he was out there because of his girlfriend but he was coming back. I saw him at the Plaza a few months later. I saw him in the River Market last week.