Three Light

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Re: Three Light

Post by WoodDraw »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:43 am It'd make sense.

It is kinda weird that Cordish is able to build & lease these new towers at a pretty rapid pace and not a single other developer has wanted to get in on this. They're literally just watching Cordish take the entire pie for themselves.
Cordish has all of their parking subsidized by the city. It's a significant cost savings at this level.

Copaken did reverb which is probably the closest comparison. I don't know how they feel about it, but I knows when they were building they wouldn't offer me any move in incentives and they came back multiple times after and offered me significant ones. I haven't heard of them rushing to throw up another tower because it was so successful.

Cordish also benefits from owning the district (again subsidized by the city) and from having a critical mass in a small area. They can share amenities between buildings and offer residents things that no one else in the city can. So they can charge at the higher end of Kansas city rents.
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Re: Three Light

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beautyfromashes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:36 am Cordish will have some competition soon for "high-rise" residential DT. They better up their game.
I think any other developers looking to do hi-rise residential in downtown KC will be the ones who need to step up their game. It may take a wild and borderline drastic design to target the small percentage of the rental market who want to live in a particular looking building.

I often think people point to other examples across the country but are comparing condo buildings to apartment buildings.
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Re: Three Light

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:43 am It'd make sense.

It is kinda weird that Cordish is able to build & lease these new towers at a pretty rapid pace and not a single other developer has wanted to get in on this. They're literally just watching Cordish take the entire pie for themselves.
This is the benefit of being the developer who took the risk before there was any certainty downtown would turn around. They signed a master development agreement when the city was at a low and downtown was in desperate shape. They now reap the benefits. As does the city.
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Re: Three Light

Post by daGOAT »

If Edgemoor builds 200 units with no parking IT WILL change the game for DTKC.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Three Light

Post by AlkaliAxel »

daGOAT wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:15 pm If Edgemoor builds 200 units with no parking IT WILL change the game for DTKC.
Is this actually a rumor or just something people hope would happen?
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Re: Three Light

Post by daGOAT »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:17 pm
daGOAT wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:15 pm If Edgemoor builds 200 units with no parking IT WILL change the game for DTKC.
Is this actually a rumor or just something people hope would happen?
https://www.flatlandkc.org/news-issues/ ... it-center/
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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

Walker wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:54 pm I would be alot less bothered by the designs if Cordish actually started putting up 2,3, etc towers at a time. Agree that things can be do to change the design without breaking the bank
After hashing out all the explanations (or excuses if you prefer from the apparent social media rep), it appears the reason to make them all similar is because they want to, not because they need to.

It's about belief that it projects branding, not about any form of cost savings or avoiding logistical issues. And that would be fine if scattered about downtown but building 3 wide long walls of this is another matter. If no one says anything, that's what we get. Some don't see it yet but when more come around after 3L completes, might be too late for feedback for next one in line. I've stirred the pot enough, so will let others take it from there. If it's not your preference and they don't really need to do this, while it's just aesthetics, say something or be content with monotony that has a 100+ year impact.

Not really seeing any valid reasoning that has come up outside of self-serving self-promotion.

Do hope to see Cordish engaging further in other KC projects (baseball stadium), however they don't need to go overboard with the monotone branding. Can take note that Geico and Progressive have several different parallel branding campaigns as they realize the monotony of just one overly used can backfire.
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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC »

^ internal renderings have been done to show what the final skyline may look like. Different future models are put into this model and the overall completed look of the buildings is a major consideration. As you can imagine any company putting almost a billion dollars into a project has considered how they’ll look for the next several decades.

This isn’t about anything besides a difference of opinion. The professionals on the development side, urbanist, architects, etc etc don’t share your opinion of this glass wall. The complaints about the topic have been discussed amongst the decision makers at great length.
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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

^You've already admitted it's about branding, which all of the 'professionals' were likely paid to target and therefore share such opinions.

If each building completely different with own identity, it wouldn't have to be discussed. The possibility is taken out of equation for a 100+ year impact.
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Re: Three Light

Post by KCPowercat »

Aren't we urbanists?
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Re: Three Light

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KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:24 am Aren't we urbanists?
Yes and your input has been listened to and considered.... often applied.

That' doesn't mean all input will be agreed to and that's my point with earthling. He/She has been the glass wall opposition leader for years now. My point is:

A: Don't you think the people with all the money invested have considered how these buildings will age?
B: They take input well and have made changes in the past after public feedback.
C: The final versions of these buildings have been vetted across several highly respected designers. The development community isn't isolated and developers talk and bounce ideas off each other. The only "communist bloc housing" input has come from one person on this board.
D: Can't please everyone but they sure try.

One great example of this boards input being heard is for the future cap park. Several notes have been taken and applied to the working version.
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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:21 am ^You've already admitted it's about branding, which all of the 'professionals' were likely paid to target and therefore share such opinions.

If each building completely different with own identity, it wouldn't have to be discussed. The possibility is taken out of equation for a 100+ year impact.
I understand you don't like the designs. Not sure why it's so personal to you but I get it. Each building is different and has it's own identity, we just need to come to an understanding that there's not enough difference and uniqueness between them to satisfy your taste.

Just and wait and see what Cordish does in other markets as they start to expand into areas of the country where designs that have worked in the midwest won't work. You'll start to see more variations, granted likely not up to your preferred style or grandeur!

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Re: Three Light

Post by daGOAT »

Three Light looks really good best design so far. One consideration for the future towers would be curved edges or a crown, which Two Light needed. I think it was mentioned that the NW corner of 14th and Main would have a similar ground floor to One Light, FYI the bricks make it look cozy but it could benefit from more windows. Personally I don't get the complaints on glass, the Faux limestone towers in Chicago are tasteless replication with zero of the decor that made its genesis so beautiful. Green elements would be a more welcome addition, see the Olympic here in Los Angeles.
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Re: Three Light

Post by KCPowercat »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:34 am
KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:24 am Aren't we urbanists?
Yes and your input has been listened to and considered.... often applied.

That' doesn't mean all input will be agreed to and that's my point with earthling. He/She has been the glass wall opposition leader for years now. My point is:

A: Don't you think the people with all the money invested have considered how these buildings will age?
B: They take input well and have made changes in the past after public feedback.
C: The final versions of these buildings have been vetted across several highly respected designers. The development community isn't isolated and developers talk and bounce ideas off each other. The only "communist bloc housing" input has come from one person on this board.
D: Can't please everyone but they sure try.

One great example of this boards input being heard is for the future cap park. Several notes have been taken and applied to the working version.
The professionals on the development side, urbanist, architects, etc etc don’t share your opinion
But we are the urbanist opinion. That's where I got confused
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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

daGOAT wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:07 am I think it was mentioned that the NW corner of 14th and Main would have a similar ground floor to One Light, FYI the bricks make it look cozy but it could benefit from more windows. Personally I don't get the complaints on glass.
Yeah it's not about glass, it's about the same design framework with small changes for several in a row that could have a very distasteful 100 year impact (in the image of bloc housing), which could be easily avoided by making each with own identity. Why does the 14th/Main site need to be about same as 1L just because similar footprint? It could have own identity. Self-serving branding is only reason given, not cost savings as many assumed (a great reason to do quaint row houses if pulled off right).

This is what needs to be pointed out as many do prefer contrasting variations but assume it's about savings so give it an easy pass.
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Re: Three Light

Post by daGOAT »

earthling wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:54 am
daGOAT wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:07 am I think it was mentioned that the NW corner of 14th and Main would have a similar ground floor to One Light, FYI the bricks make it look cozy but it could benefit from more windows. Personally I don't get the complaints on glass.
Yeah it's not about glass, it's about the same design framework with small changes for several in a row that could have a very distasteful 100 year impact (in the image of bloc housing), which could be easily avoided by making each with own identity. Why does the 14th/Main site need to be about same as 1L just because similar footprint? It could have own identity. Self-serving branding is only reason given, not cost savings as many assumed (a great reason to do quaint row houses if pulled off right).

This is what needs to be pointed out as many do prefer contrasting variations but assume it's about savings so give it an easy pass.
You're right that wasn't best analogy on my part. At least all 3 towers have different materials on the ground floor. I still think 3 Light is the best design yet and so I have hope for the next 3 towers. But you're right a subtle change in shape or material goes a long way. Some of the designs I have seen in LA are insane but when I was selling condos in Chicago the designs were much more boring. I'm not sure why that is but I have noticed the common denominator on the iconic designs being mixed use (hotel+condo), for sale units, and higher overall budget, which admittedly explains design in KC much more than Chi. Alot of parking podiums are enclosed with multi-level retail and wrap around video boards but in alot of cases parking is subterranean, which we all know gives more flexibility on the base of a high rise.
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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

Yeah, many lessons can be learned from mistakes and good ideas in other cities. I'm on the investor side (in a private equity group that deals mostly in CRE and other industries) and very quickly learned the tactics used to manage public expectations for attempting to justify things like this, especially if there's a valid reason such as cost/economies of scale/etc. But in this case near repetition isn't a cost issue, they apparently believe branding justifies monotony.
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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:52 pm Yeah, many lessons can be learned from mistakes and good ideas in other cities. I'm on the investor side (in a private equity group that deals mostly in CRE and other industries) and very quickly learned the tactics used to manage public expectations for attempting to justify things like this, especially if there's a valid reason such as cost/economies of scale/etc. But in this case near repetition isn't a cost issue, they apparently believe branding justifies monotony.
Interesting you’ve latched on to the branding comment. I guess they could lie to you and say the final versions are the result of cost savings alone? You don’t seem to like the truth and can’t accept they want the buildings to look a certain way. If you’re on the investor side, surely you’ve had situations where a fractional margin of the public don’t like a projects design.

I’m just perplexed you seem to think you know better? You’ve called the designs lazy, monotonous, bloc housing and repetitive. Like shit, we get it! You don’t like them.

Everything has a logical answer. For example, why did the top parapet get deleted on 2Light? Two reasons, budget and for the sake of the finished total project skyline. Two Light will be the base and each building to the west will be taller and taller. Had they done a parapet on 2L, it could have ended up looking far too similar to 3L.

I keep saying I’m done with this conversion and get sucked back in.

This board has impacted changes and will continue to do so. That doesn’t mean they’ll be starting from scratch on the next design to appease earthling.
earthling
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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

^They are indeed just one opinion, which I often press for projects that involve public aid. Others have a preference for wider variation but believe it's due to cost when it doesn't have to be. Will continue to point that out. You're sending a lot of mixed messages so hard to really figure out the need to use basically same framework.

So why will the 14th/Main site look mostly like 1L?
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Re: Three Light

Post by langosta »

variance in height is minimal between 1,2,3
nothing to indicate this will change for 4,5,6,
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