Is Midtown Marketplace one of the city's greatest blunders?

[dangerboy]

The Main Street Corridor guidelines weren't finalized until AFTER Midtown Marketplace was built. I suppose the new building was already approved as part of the original plan. Even MainCor's office is in a building that violates the guidelines. This shows how difficult it can be to change the planning and zoning mentality.

[trailerkid]

With the potential for the renaissance of the Armour Blvd district, I feel the development of Midtown Marketplace stings even worse. Something as cookie cutter as Zona Rosa would've been soooooo much better. However, I will give credit for getting useful tenants like Home Depot and Costco in the middle of the city. It just pains me to even think about what could've been considering the momentum that seems to be developing in neighboring parts of Midtown.

[warwickland]

the idea is to keep an eye on everything now, and not let anything like this slip through ever again. its happened countless times in south city, stl.

[rxlexi]

yes, it's unfortunate, but it happened and is a done deal, and I'd imagine in some small way has contributed to the up-and-coming nature of Hyde Park and Midtown in general with Costco and especially Home Depot (for all those wonderful rehabbers out there  =D>).  With the option of bulldozing and starting over unrealistic, it seems we'll just have to live with it and accept it for what it is - useful services and goods in a nieghborhood that for many many years lacked them and a potential plus to folks looking to move into the area and rehab or raise a family.  

[warwickland]

I suspect that some of that massive parking lot could be built upon, and the edge facing main be fixed...so long as the stop f'ing it up with more strip malls.

the dynamic between that strip mall on the south side facing main and those row houses is an abomination and another missed opportunity to rebuild a truly great urban space.. whoever allowed that should be stripped of all their qualifications.

[trailerkid]

I'd imagine in some small way has contributed to the up-and-coming nature of Hyde Park and Midtown in general with Costco and especially Home Depot (for all those wonderful rehabbers out there  =D>).  

Never thought about it that way...seeing a giant orange Home Depot box daily sure gives you a psychological push to fix up your property. Thanks for bringing that up. 

[KCTigerFan]

I bet if challanged that the great architects of this city could design some amazing buildings to line the Main and Linwood sides of the parking lot.  The Main Street side could be especially interesting with the grade differential.  Viewed from Main, the buildings could be 2-3 stories tall,  From the Home Depot lot they would actually be 4 stories. 

Of course if we added some mixed-use buildings to this location the parking necessary based on our F*&%ed up city codes would probably consume all of Hyde Park.

[justin8216]

Check out the colorful California design Target did at inner suburban Lakewood Mall...
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Rawdealman/24233.jpg

That Target reminds me of a Walgreen's. With the Logo behind the  glass window and the corner entrance. I like it. If they could have just stuck the Target right up to the street corner, that  would have been awesome. People arriving by car could come in a back entrance.

So Mid-town marketplace may not be what we were dreaming of. It was better that what you had. Which was nothing.
Hind-site is always 20/20
Learn from the mistakes and improve the next time around.
Unfortunately we can't go back in time. Were stuck with it as it was built, so you just got to make the best of what you got and build from there.

[trailerkid]

OK...I have too much time on my hand right now. I've been reading recently about how urban areas are the new frontier for many retailers who are always toiling in the suburbs. Most urban markets are very underserved by popular retail chains. Many people in the cores of cities are just as responsive to retailer names like Old Navy, Best Buy, H+M, etc. In fact, it's been reported that many of the urban GAP location are top performers within the chain.

So all this got me thinking...what if Midtown Marketplace built on the momentum of Costco and Home Depot and created a hybrid of an interior power center with retail lining its edges and large parking garages hidden on the interior. These type of centers that mash-up big name retail and other uses are more common in areas like Phila, Boston, NYC, but I think this Midtown property could be something special for KC. The center would also serve a mixed use purpose by including midrise residential, hotel and office on the upper levels of the project. IMO, it would be a way of turning a bad situation into something that would create a lot of sales tax revenue for KCMo. I'm not sure how the exterior design would look, but it would mix the corporate identities of the tenants with an urban streetscape that is appealing while also modern. The tenants would be middle of the road or discount fare that currently cannot be found in the city (e.g. Aeropostale, Marshall's, DSW, etc.) along with some edgier chains (Chang's Pei Wei, H+M) and stores to fuel the East Side (Foot Locker, fye, Ashley Stewart). It would be a very diverse center where you could expect to see hip hop kids next to yuppies next to Midtown hipsters next to old school KCMo grandpas.

How it looks now...


Site Plan Floor 1 (white is ground level retail/restaurants, blue is parking)


Site Plan Above Floor 1 (residential+office+hotel midrises)


How it looks in terms of the rest of Midtown...

[Steve52]

Problem is Big Boxes like Depot and Costco demand a specifc amount of parking area-space dedicated to their operation exclusively before they will commit to a location as part of their long term contractual agreement.

Nice idea but don't think Depot and Costco are going to let it happen because of that one factor. Not anytime soon anyway.

[chrizow]

Problem is Big Boxes like Depot and Costco demand a specifc amount of parking area-space dedicated to their operation exclusively before they will commit to a location as part of their long term contractual agreement.

Nice idea but don't think Depot and Costco are going to let it happen because of that one factor. Not anytime soon anyway.

you would think that they could sacrifice some parking in order to gain traffic via synergy with the other stores.  besides, there could be parking garages if it's that big of a deal.

[Steve52]

you would think that they could sacrifice some parking in order to gain traffic via synergy with the other stores.  besides, there could be parking garages if it's that big of a deal.

Indeed. Exactly.

Won't find much thinking out of the box in the day to day business as usual mindset of those operations though its unfortunate they cling to the old "model". Best Buy tried some small inner core urban concept models but none of them made it except for a small handful.


I'll add that there is no reason for New Thinkers to toss in the towel though.

Soon or later their ship will come in.

[ComandanteCero]

the problem with parking garages vs surface lots, is that as land prices go in KC (and at the time that the project when forward) it was much cheaper to take up a huge chunk of land for a surface lot than to build a garage.  If land prices in the area were to begin skyrocketing, there would be a much greater incentive to building a garage.... but it'll take time i suppose.

[Steve52]

Wild Oats was going to commit to a Big Super Market in Westport not long ago but pulled out because they couldn't get the parking space they required in the deal.

[trailerkid]

you would think that they could sacrifice some parking in order to gain traffic via synergy with the other stores.   besides, there could be parking garages if it's that big of a deal.

Yeah...with the midrises, I was going to put in three different parking structures that would actually expand the amount the parking.

the problem with parking garages vs surface lots, is that as land prices go in KC (and at the time that the project when forward) it was much cheaper to take up a huge chunk of land for a surface lot than to build a garage.  If land prices in the area were to begin skyrocketing, there would be a much greater incentive to building a garage.... but it'll take time i suppose.

There are garages for shopping centers all over suburbia on less than expensive land. No reason to believe one in the middle of city would be some sort of hurdle in a development that is this high profile.

[trailerkid]

Wild Oats was going to commit to a Big Super Market in Westport not long ago but pulled out because they couldn't get the parking space they required in the deal.

And it was replaced by the metro's first World Market store.

[Steve52]

And it was replaced by the metro's first World Market store.

Exactly.

I suspect another part of the reason these large operations we are discussing want a dedicated parking deal now days is so they have a buffer from competing business. Plus they want to discourage people from getting distracted and making impulse purchases at other stores in the immediate vicinity.

Sounds crazy but Marketing Strategy is strange stuff these days.

[ComandanteCero]

There are garages for shopping centers all over suburbia on less than expensive land. No reason to believe one in the middle of city would be some sort of hurdle in a development that is this high profile.

I'm saying, the developers won't do it unless the pot is very very sweet at this point.  The costs of building, maintaining, and policing garages are several multiples of surface lots which is what makes them very expensive and feasible only where land prices/constraints force it.  If you can make the numers work go ahead, i'm not going to complain.  But just consider that the garage in downtown Lawrence, on New Hampshire cost 8 million dollars to build, and i don't think that even includes the cost of purchasing the land   

[aknowledgeableperson]

The worse thing about this development is the big wall that faces Linwood Blvd.  Too bad the building wasn't pushed south and this wall replaced with storefronts/residences/small offices.

[voltopt]

i like your idea trailer kid - i was sketching something very similar on a print of that site recently. 
i think it could be viable in the future if midtown and areas north and south continue to grow.  infill of this nature wouldn't be impossible - it might even help the long term viablity of this center.  i could see two or three other suburban type box retailers (old navy, best buy, what have you) and a nice mix of residential and office.  the residential and tiff money could pay for the 3 large garages, one for each big box, with entrances on linwood and main and gilham.  it could help to right the wrongs in the area - if a developer with the "vision" and commitment could be located (and the clout to lure good tenants) the problem is most if not all developers would be scared away by the price of the garages and the bad demographics in the area.  what they would need to realize is this place would draw from fairway, brookside, plaza, westport, midtown, downtown, eastern kck, east side kcmo, northeast, union hill, etc.  it would be huge.

on another note, the reasons those parking lots are so huge is so they will never look full - therefore customers will stop because it doesn't look busy.  talk about bad land management - unused impervious surface placed to make the center look less "busy"