Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[normalthings]

It's the most recent owner peoples, a generic mall owner approaching bankruptcy territory. They haven't done a single thing to elevate it to next level.

They are milking the Plaza's history but not contributing to it. At least when Highwoods owned it they replaced the sidewalks with brick, added B&N, McCormicks buildings and attracted desirable retailers.

If the owner with the best connections to high-end retail can't make it work, I suspect others will struggle. I know one of the firms that pursued the Plaza and adjacent holdings when it was put on the market. It was not going to be a high end shopping center.....

I think the area has to change and Historic KC, Bunch, Shields, etc are preventing that.

[GRID]

It's the most recent owner peoples, a generic mall owner approaching bankruptcy territory. They haven't done a single thing to elevate it to next level.

They are milking the Plaza's history but not contributing to it. At least when Highwoods owned it they replaced the sidewalks with brick, added B&N, McCormicks buildings and attracted desirable retailers.

I think the area has to change and Historic KC, Bunch, Shields, etc are preventing that.

This.

[earthling]

It's the most recent owner peoples, a generic mall owner approaching bankruptcy territory. They haven't done a single thing to elevate it to next level.

They are milking the Plaza's history but not contributing to it. At least when Highwoods owned it they replaced the sidewalks with brick, added B&N, McCormicks buildings and attracted desirable retailers.

If the owner with the best connections to high-end retail can't make it work, I suspect others will struggle. I know one of the firms that pursued the Plaza and adjacent holdings when it was put on the market. It was not going to be a high end shopping center.....

I think the area has to change and Historic KC, Bunch, Shields, etc are preventing that.

^Yes, agree it needs to be far broader mixed use at this point, have been preaching that for years. But the weak owner needs to put it up for sale and ideally a strong mixed-use urbane developer/operator bites.

Bottom line is that the Plaza downfall is the current owner. A one-dimensional generic mall operator not able to adapt to the times.

[AlkaliAxel]

I think people in KC are just as likely to take out of towners to the Legends or some new shopping center in JoCo as they are to the plaza, if not more so.

Nah.

The only way people come to visit and don't see the urban core is if they're going to sports games. Which is precisely why they all need to be downtown.

[normalthings]

It's the most recent owner peoples, a generic mall owner approaching bankruptcy territory. They haven't done a single thing to elevate it to next level.

They are milking the Plaza's history but not contributing to it. At least when Highwoods owned it they replaced the sidewalks with brick, added B&N, McCormicks buildings and attracted desirable retailers.

If the owner with the best connections to high-end retail can't make it work, I suspect others will struggle. I know one of the firms that pursued the Plaza and adjacent holdings when it was put on the market. It was not going to be a high end shopping center.....

I think the area has to change and Historic KC, Bunch, Shields, etc are preventing that.

^Yes, agree it needs to be far broader mixed use at this point, have been preaching that for years. But the weak owner needs to put it up for sale and ideally a strong mixed-use urbane developer/operator bites.

Bottom line is that the Plaza downfall is the current owner. A one-dimensional generic mall operator not able to adapt to the times.

if current ownership wanted to adapt the plaza today the city would say no.

[earthling]

^The current owner isn't in any position to even get that far. They haven't contributed anything since acquiring the Plaza, just milking it.

[KCPowercat]

I just don't contribute charm to a retailer name but probably hanging up too much on the term. We all have witnessed the retail change there.

I'm saying that beyond its unique architecture, it's no longer all that impressive. It just doesn't have that same pull it once did where people want to just be there to people watch etc. Going clear back to when I still lived in KC, the plaza seems to have gone down a little every year to the point where today it's closer to being zona rosa than a thriving urban district.

Compared to how it used to be, it feels "dead" to me every time I go there. When I used to go to the plaza, there was something about that place that made you want to quickly park the car and just walk around and enjoy the place. There was always so many people on the sidewalks, live music in several different places, the theaters, window shopping the high end retailers or walking through them.

I really don't think the plaza has that type of appeal anymore. Even the thanksgiving lighting ceremony has dwindled down to like 10k people showing up. I've been a few times in the past ten years and it's nothing like it was.

I'm sure this will all be taken as I'm just hating on KC again from the east coast, but it's just my opinion from somebody that literally grew up in South Plaza. Still love the plaza and hope it will once again be the bustling urban mecca of that part of the midwest.

I just think you are over romantizing what the plaza used to be. We all experience other urban district and can recognize the plaza has changed. Doesn't take moving away to recognize 8t.

I don't think losing retailers changes the charm of the plaza but again I might just be getting hung up on that word

[normalthings]

^The current owner isn't in any position to even get that far. They haven't contributed anything since acquiring the Plaza, just milking it.

Shopping district owners aren't doing great but they certainly have the means to redevelop if they choose to. The city is ultimately the one stopping change in and around the district, no matter who owns it.

One of the charms of the Plaza is a bustling feel. With the thinning of the herds, that feel has diminished.

[GRID]

It's the most recent owner peoples, a generic mall owner approaching bankruptcy territory. They haven't done a single thing to elevate it to next level.

They are milking the Plaza's history but not contributing to it. At least when Highwoods owned it they replaced the sidewalks with brick, added B&N, McCormicks buildings and attracted desirable retailers.

If the owner with the best connections to high-end retail can't make it work, I suspect others will struggle. I know one of the firms that pursued the Plaza and adjacent holdings when it was put on the market. It was not going to be a high end shopping center.....

I think the area has to change and Historic KC, Bunch, Shields, etc are preventing that.

^Yes, agree it needs to be far broader mixed use at this point, have been preaching that for years. But the weak owner needs to put it up for sale and ideally a strong mixed-use urbane developer/operator bites.

Bottom line is that the Plaza downfall is the current owner. A one-dimensional generic mall operator not able to adapt to the times.

But it's not just the current owner. Sure, they will be the ones that put the final nail in the coffin, but the Plaza has been going downhill for a long time for many reasons.

KC's wealthy is just not centered around the plaza anymore and has only gotten further and further away from the city.

All the big retail names that do have an interest in Metro KC are now established in JoCo.

KC has almost no major corporate employers in the center city.

The Plaza has few destination restaurants, very little nightlife and does not even have a movie theater now. From my experience, there also does not seem to be as much programming (live music etc).

The people (everybody from residents to organized groups) have been adamantly afraid of change to the Plaza and fight every proposed development.

The City (city of KCMO) does very little to invest in the area. (the streetcar close by will be the first major investment since the creek was redone).

Crime continues to be a problem and like most urban areas right now, crime is just getting out of control as there is almost no punishment now.

And then you add in the continued downgrade of the owners and yeah the plaza is just not what it once was.

[earthling]

^The current owner isn't in any position to even get that far. They haven't contributed anything since acquiring the Plaza, just milking it.

Shopping district owners aren't doing great but they certainly have the means to redevelop if they choose to. The city is ultimately the one stopping change in and around the district, no matter who owns it.

One of the charms of the Plaza is a bustling feel. With the thinning of the herds, that feel has diminished.

^And the Plaza owners are in one of the weakest positions to redevelop being in bankruptcy territory....
https://www.gurufocus.com/term/zscore/N ... erty-Group
https://www.gurufocus.com/term/zscore/N ... e/Macerich

Plaza needs someone in a stronger position than a 'shopping district owner' not well diversified.

Of all the issues anyone can blame game with, this is the one that needs to change first.

[AlkaliAxel]

Lane4 came back from the dead with like 400 apartments & a convenience store. That's a promising sign for the Plaza to me.

[MidtownCat]

A retail district with 1 in 5 of the storefronts boarded up can’t feel charming.

[normalthings]

Lane4 came back from the dead with like 400 apartments & a convenience store. That's a promising sign for the Plaza to me.

A large scale apartment had already been approved for the site. No change

[normalthings]

^The current owner isn't in any position to even get that far. They haven't contributed anything since acquiring the Plaza, just milking it.

Shopping district owners aren't doing great but they certainly have the means to redevelop if they choose to. The city is ultimately the one stopping change in and around the district, no matter who owns it.

One of the charms of the Plaza is a bustling feel. With the thinning of the herds, that feel has diminished.

^And the Plaza owners are in one of the weakest positions to redevelop being in bankruptcy territory....
https://www.gurufocus.com/term/zscore/N ... erty-Group
https://www.gurufocus.com/term/zscore/N ... e/Macerich

Plaza needs someone in a stronger position than a 'shopping district owner' not well diversified.

Of all the issues anyone can blame game with, this is the one that needs to change first.

Why would I buy the Plaza with the goal of redevelopment if there is no path to approving redevelopment?

[earthling]

^Mayor Q has already chatted about a need for broader change. A stronger owner could do some reasonable changes within existing framework while pursuing broader multi-use strategy longer term. And there are probably some easy initial wins to pursue that wouldn't have much resistance (edit: such as pursuing broader nightlife and turning Nichols Rd into a real public Plaza).

Current owners can't pull off basic improvements within existing framework. This is the core problem, not the City (though of course is a factor if proposing anything outside existing framework).

[AlkaliAxel]

Lane4 came back from the dead with like 400 apartments & a convenience store. That's a promising sign for the Plaza to me.

A large scale apartment had already been approved for the site. No change

Yeah but like…I think it was legit dead?

[normalthings]

Lane4 came back from the dead with like 400 apartments & a convenience store. That's a promising sign for the Plaza to me.

A large scale apartment had already been approved for the site. No change

Yeah but like…I think it was legit dead?

it coming back just brings you up to equalibium. It is not a sign of any shifting winds or change of heart.

[TheLastGentleman]

Perfect time to encourage retail back downtown where it belongs

[normalthings]

Perfect time to encourage retail back downtown where it belongs

Not this again

[AlkaliAxel]

I actually had the same thought as TLG. Plaza going down means we could move alot of that stuff back downtown. Which would be better.