Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[MidtownCat]

This kid can’t make up his mind. Now the Plaza is going down?

[kcjak]

I actually had the same thought as TLG. Plaza going down means we could move alot of that stuff back downtown. Which would be better.

WE could move a lot of stuff back downtown, but it's not up to us. If the Plaza imploded tomorrow, how many of those businesses would move downtown in lieu of closing? For every Shake Shack that MIGHT go downtown, there are several that are already there (Made in KC, Rally House) or even more (Forever 21, Old Navy, West Elm) that would more than likely not relocate.

And as shitty a job as Taubman has done, who's to say if they put it all up for sale that they don't sell it to a company that does an even shittier job? Another company may see the Plaza as a cash cow and just think it's going to sustain itself without evolving with the retail industry or changing urban network.

[earthling]

Downtown loop could use some kind of a flagship/anchor that draws a few other national retailers. Plaza needs to reduce some retail and broaden out with more diversity than a mall - 80 or so retail spots is more than enough if a good dozen or so are unique to region and a few high end draws when conditions are right.

We need more urban diverse neighborhoods, not primary function districts. The Plaza can be diverse (with a bit less retail, broader nightlife) while still being a regional draw and downtown can be diverse (with more national retail) along with a free streetcar tying it together.

[TheLastGentleman]

Perfect time to encourage retail back downtown where it belongs

Not this again

??

[AlkaliAxel]

I actually had the same thought as TLG. Plaza going down means we could move alot of that stuff back downtown. Which would be better.

WE could move a lot of stuff back downtown, but it's not up to us. If the Plaza imploded tomorrow, how many of those businesses would move downtown in lieu of closing? For every Shake Shack that MIGHT go downtown, there are several that are already there (Made in KC, Rally House) or even more (Forever 21, Old Navy, West Elm) that would more than likely not relocate.

And as shitty a job as Taubman has done, who's to say if they put it all up for sale that they don't sell it to a company that does an even shittier job? Another company may see the Plaza as a cash cow and just think it's going to sustain itself without evolving with the retail industry or changing urban network.

You are right. We wouldn't only get a fraction of that stuff downtown. Best case scenario is both downtown & plaza thrive with retail. Is that possible? Idk.

[MidtownCat]

The Plaza move-outs thread never fails to deliver!

First we hear the Plaza’s demise is greatly exaggerated and complete BS.

Then we hear a Lane4 apartment building is going to save it.

After that we hear “it’s going down”.

Now we should just move the retail downtown. Hahaha.

Love it.

[AlkaliAxel]

First we hear the Plaza’s demise is greatly exaggerated and complete BS.

Then we hear a Lane4 apartment building is going to save it.

After that we hear “it’s going down”.

It's not going down. Nobody said that. But if it does go down then it would help downtown retail finally.

[TheLastGentleman]

I’m not entirely sure why “retail should be downtown” is controversial but I’d love to hear the reasoning

[MidtownCat]

First we hear the Plaza’s demise is greatly exaggerated and complete BS.

Then we hear a Lane4 apartment building is going to save it.

After that we hear “it’s going down”.

It's not going down. Nobody said that. But if it does go down then it would help downtown retail finally.

You literally said that, but who’s counting.

[AlkaliAxel]

First we hear the Plaza’s demise is greatly exaggerated and complete BS.

Then we hear a Lane4 apartment building is going to save it.

After that we hear “it’s going down”.

It's not going down. Nobody said that. But if it does go down then it would help downtown retail finally.

You literally said that, but who’s counting.

It was implying that *if* the Plaza goes down then it would help downtown retail.

Please stop commenting on everything I write and leave me the fuck alone already. I'm tired of this trolling shit. Block me on your end if that helps so you don't have to see my posts.

[WoodDraw]

I’m not entirely sure why “retail should be downtown” is controversial but I’d love to hear the reasoning

I don't think anyone believes downtown retail is controversial. Occasionally we get people here that think everything should be downtown and don't get why we don't turn grand st into Michigan avenue, and that's a bit annoying.

The plaza needs to adapt. It's being very poorly serviced right now by the owners, by the city, and by the advocacy groups.

Need more housing and to slowly replace the bowl with higher density.

[AlkaliAxel]

I’m not entirely sure why “retail should be downtown” is controversial but I’d love to hear the reasoning

I don't think anyone believes downtown retail is controversial. Occasionally we get people here that think everything should be downtown and don't get why we don't turn grand st into Michigan avenue, and that's a bit annoying.

The plaza needs to adapt. It's being very poorly serviced right now by the owners, by the city, and by the advocacy groups.

Need more housing and to slowly replace the bowl with higher density.

I really do think the streetcar could be the key to breathe fresh air in there. Downtown residents would probably go to Plaza much more frequently, and it’ll help alot.

At the same time, maybe instead of trying to find new retail constantly they just look for convenience stores, fast food or even a grocery store.

[Midtownkid]

Just to defend MidtownCat a bit, I don't believe it's fair to depict him as hating optimism or that his narrative is bullshit. He's actually the one person singly responsible for uncovering the West Terrace stairs at Case Park and cleaning that area up on a regular basis so people can explore and enjoy that archaeology. He took that upon himself to get permission from the Parks Department and organize volunteers to get it done.

He has made a positive influence on Kansas City and loves this city a lot.

Fang, that was me actually!

[FangKC]

Sorry, I meant Midtownkid, not Midtown Cat. lol. I have cat on the brain. See avatar.

[AlkaliAxel]

Sorry, I meant Midtownkid, not Midtown Cat. lol. I have cat on the brain. See avatar.

Oh, well that makes ALOT more sense now

[Highlander]

Sorry, I meant Midtownkid, not Midtown Cat. lol. I have cat on the brain. See avatar.

Nonetheless, I find nothing wrong with Midtown Cat's initial posts on the subject. Nothing wrong with being realistic. A lot of us have watched KC development for decades now and know it has been a 2 step forward, 1.5 step backwards type of process.

[MidtownCat]

It's not going down. Nobody said that. But if it does go down then it would help downtown retail finally.

You literally said that, but who’s counting.

It was implying that *if* the Plaza goes down then it would help downtown retail.

Please stop commenting on everything I write and leave me the fuck alone already. I'm tired of this trolling shit. Block me on your end if that helps so you don't have to see my posts.

Haha. No need to go all drama queen on us, bro. I thought you were a big boy and could take being called out on a message board, but appears you can dish it but can’t take it.

[AlkaliAxel]

Sorry, I meant Midtownkid, not Midtown Cat. lol. I have cat on the brain. See avatar.

Nonetheless, I find nothing wrong with Midtown Cat's initial posts on the subject. Nothing wrong with being realistic. A lot of us have watched KC development for decades now and know it has been a 2 step forward, 1.5 step backwards type of process.

They’ve been saying that about the Plaza since 2002. It’s probably got more residents than ever now. Possibly more stores to come as well.

[KCPowercat]

The plaza is dying started about 1960 I'd guess. Definitely predates almost everybody posting here

[earthling]

Though when is the last time Plaza vacancy hit over 15% and owner approaching bankruptcy. Ever happen? Rest of metro is 3-8% vacancy, urban core under 4%..

https://nmrkzimmer.com/wp-content/uploa ... Report.pdf