Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[earthling]

^Needed no, but would breathe new life for Plaza with a new 'attraction' and gathering place for residents. Perhaps turn Nichols Rd into MLK Square. And add residential on existing parking garages.

[AlkaliAxel]

^Needed no, but would breathe new life for Plaza with a new 'attraction' and gathering place for residents. Perhaps turn Nichols Rd into MLK Square. And add residential on existing parking garages.

Aside from all that we've been discussing- isn't the streetcar going to significantly improve this all anyway? Since the circulator will make it so you can do downtown and the Plaza together anyway

[MidtownCat]

I don’t know if this is public knowledge yet, but it appears the Nordstrom deal has has fallen through. Supposedly, Simon is in talks with Target. (I’m not joking)

Anybody else hearing that?

[Chris Stritzel]

The Nordstrom site makes a lot of sense for a Target due to it being connected to the parking garage, in an area full of apartments and condos, and soon to be easily connected to the streetcar. Target is also stable as a retailer. I just hope that the property owners consider apartments on top to just add something else to the mix

[earthling]

Wouldn't be surprising as Nordstrom's strategy is online and Rack stores but would suck for Plaza to not have an anchor to that degree. Target would be OK however downtown needs it more. Hopefully the mall operator owner will sell Plaza to a truly experienced multi-use developer that focuses on adding some residential within.

[msmith011]

I don’t know if this is public knowledge yet, but it appears the Nordstrom deal has has fallen through. Supposedly, Simon is in talks with Target. (I’m not joking)

Anybody else hearing that?

I haven't heard this but, as much as I hate to admit it, it is possible. From what I know construction was supposed to resume this past summer but there still hasn't been any movement since the pandemic began. It's suspicious for sure.

The Plaza still shows Nordstrom as coming soon on the map and Nordstrom still lists the Plaza location as coming soon. Not that this means the project is going forward by any means, but I have to stay optimistic... https://www.nordstrom.com/browse/about/ ... e-openings

If the rumor is true, at a minimum, Nordstrom owes the Oak Park Mall location a complete renovation -- I don't think it's been updated since '98. The obvious move would be to compete with Halls and increase the higher-end assortment which is lacking big time. Oak Park would be wise to update the Nordstrom wing as well and go after more upscale stores.

As for the Plaza... yikes. Target would be great for locals but I like the idea of creating a public gathering spot/green space (highly doubt this would ever happen but I can dream).

[kboish]

If they build a target, they should at least put apartments over it

[moderne]

Back to the future: site was part of the Sears complex.

[beautyfromashes]

Seems very close to the Ward Parkway store, but idk. I'm worried for what the Plaza is becoming.

[AlkaliAxel]

A Target would just look awful on the Plaza.

So that joke I made awhile back about the “urban Target” just taking over the big box Home Depot slot on Main and still going suburban style was actually sorta true…unbelievable

[AlkaliAxel]

Seriously though this is awful for multiple reasons…

First of all…a Target doesn’t belong on the Plaza

Secondly, they’ll try and consider this an urban target and it won’t be the one we want at all.

If that’s our “urban target” then it would literally be quicker for most people downtown to *sighs* get in their car and drive to Ward Parkway Target and come back rather than riding the streetcar all the way to Plaza with bags in hand for 30 mins.

[GRID]

Seriously though this is awful for multiple reasons…

First of all…a Target doesn’t belong on the Plaza

Secondly, they’ll try and consider this an urban target and it won’t be the one we want at all.

If that’s our “urban target” then it would literally be quicker for most people downtown to *sighs* get in their car and drive to Ward Parkway Target and come back rather than riding the streetcar all the way to Plaza with bags in hand for 30 mins.

I agree.

I predicted this Nordstrom's would never open and even if it did, it would last less than five years. So it's probably best to move on to plan B now.

While the image of the plaza will take a hit as far as it being high end luxury, there is little left in the plaza that is high end luxury anyway. It's been downgraded from that for a long time now.

I think they could pull off a Target there so long as it's part of a much larger project. I personally think that a much larger project should happen there anyway, but instead of a big box, it should be restaurants and entertainment on the first floor. A full blown target would make more sense somewhere in Midtown along the streetcar line at the base of an apartment tower.

However if the plaza is dead set on a putting one there, it has to be done right and it has to be part of a larger mixed use high density project. Something that will help hide the fact that a discount big box store is dominating the area.

Here is a pic of a local target near me in a suburban area. I was actually taking a pic of the Christmas tree, but you can see the Target at the upper right. This is a relatively upscale shopping area, but still has things like Target and Bed Bath and Beyond. It seems like this is what the plaza is becoming which is kind of sad actually. The Plaza really needs to sell that land and let somebody develop something more fitting there.

[beautyfromashes]

Why don't they extend Nichols Rd (might be a good opportunity to rename it) and expand the Plaza all the way to Roanoke?

[AlkaliAxel]

I'm okay with what the Plaza is as long as we don't have grocers. As long as it's retail, I think it's all good and it still maintains it's majestic appeal.

Why don't we just build only apartment there on that spot and just not worry about any new stores?

I can't stress this enough, we just *cannot* have a Target in that location- it will destroy downtown. Honestly the city or someone with authority needs to block it. It'll be too close to downtown for them to build a real urban Target, and simultaneously nobody downtown will ever get to use it. It's literally the worst scenario possible.

[Chris Stritzel]

I think the freak out over this potential Target “taking away from Downtown” is unfounded. You could still get another, smaller Target Downtown regardless if the Plaza one happens. KC is growing and can support more retail, big and small. Simply saying a Target needs to be blocked for a host of possibilities is how desirability of neighborhoods is reduced. The arguments become no better than NIMBYs opposing new housing, office space or hotels.

Retailers choose where they go based on a number of factors, and if Target believes the Plaza is a great opportunity right now, then they’ll pursue it. In regards to the Ward location, it’s 5.5 miles away from the Plaza. And the one in Mission Kansas is 5.1 miles away. So they’re close to the Plaza, but not too close. And when you can put a Target in an area with lots of apartments, condos, homes, hotel rooms and office space, why wouldn’t you? It helps with the walkability factor and would keep a portion of the Plaza activated for years to come far better than a Nordstrom would.

If you put a smaller, refined Target in downtown near the Power and Light District, it would be roughly 5 miles away from the Plaza, the precedent is there already. Larger cities have them much closer to each other, so why can’t KC? The point I’m making is don’t freak out about a Plaza Target location since it’s still entirely possible that a true urban Target could go in the Downtown area in the future because the factors I mentioned earlier are the same downtown as they are in the Plaza.

And the way growth is happening, and will continue to happen, I’d imagine the KC Downtown market can support a Target as much as the Plaza and so on.

[GRID]

^ True. I'm just saying it has to be done right. I can see them just throwing up a generic target box in that space. That would be a huge fail. Make it part of a bigger development. Have more traditional retail fronting the sidewalk and the actual target above it. Build apartments above that.

It kind of sucks to see the plaza downgrade from luxury, but at the same time, it could evolve into an actual neighborhood. However, just slapping a target onto the parking garage there could backfire.

[moderne]

I don't quite understand people wanting the Plaza to be more neighborhood oriented but bemoan the possibility of an everyday store going in rather than high end luxury.
Historically the Plaza had a variety of shopping for many decades before DT retail went away.

[AlkaliAxel]

I don't quite understand people wanting the Plaza to be more neighborhood oriented but bemoan the possibility of an everyday store going in rather than high end luxury.
Historically the Plaza had a variety of shopping for many decades before DT retail went away.

Fair.

Ok, I'll compromise. I'm okay with Target there *if* they try to design it with the Plaza design in mind. I don't want Target to drop a big red block in the middle of our beautiful Plaza. If they want the space they need to look the part.

[Chris Stritzel]

^ True. I'm just saying it has to be done right. I can see them just throwing up a generic target box in that space. That would be a huge fail. Make it part of a bigger development. Have more traditional retail fronting the sidewalk and the actual target above it. Build apartments above that.

It kind of sucks to see the plaza downgrade from luxury, but at the same time, it could evolve into an actual neighborhood. However, just slapping a target onto the parking garage there could backfire.

I agree. This needs to be more than just a stand alone Target. Housing up top would be a good start to getting some housing within the actual Plaza shops area.

[moderne]

I would hope so, but the Nordstrom's design was rather generic. And the last specific built department store on the Plaza also was bland--Sak's Fifth Ave. The current owners de-Moorized the Halls building to look more like a parking garage. Indeed, the end of the parking garage they tore down for Nordstroms had a rather clumsy poorly executed Mediterranean strip mall facade. No owner since JC Nichols Co has done much to maintain the style.