Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
langosta
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by langosta »

the Plaza and surrounding areas need increased density. This includes rebuilding the Plaza itself.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by FangKC »

Societal changes are responsible for this. People in general don't dress up as much as they used to in the past. Casual clothing has seen the most growth.

In addition, people's incomes have not kept pace with inflation for 40 years so fewer and fewer people can afford upscale anything. More of their budgets go to needs than wants.

High-end shops have been affected the most. Many have closed stores in the hinterland cities. Many only do well in New York, Boston, Washington DC, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia, Miami, Palm Beach, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

About 43 percent of the nation's household wealth is in four states; 50 percent of the wealth is in six states. Those numbers are skewed by a tiny fraction of the state residents who are multimillionaires or billionaires. It doesn't mean everyone in New York has money to blow. It just means there are more wealthy households in those states. These are the people who shop in high-end stores.

Some wealthy people live in more than one place. They may have a house where their business is, but live in another city a good deal of the time. They do their high-end shopping in the other city because their home city can't support the high-end shops.

Secondly, more Americans see Bloomingdale's Nordstrom's, Macy's, and Dillard's as out of reach for their budgets. They shop at stores like JC Penney, Walmart, Target, TJ Maxx, Marshall's, and Burlington Coat Factory. We are also seeing more people shopping online so physical stores don't see the foot traffic and are more expensive to operate.

The Plaza struggles because our Metro's affluent neighborhoods keep moving further outward. It can have some upscale businesses, but it needs to return to serving the neighborhoods around it, and building more density.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by FangKC »

Late Summer Opening Anticipated for Strang Food Hall at Plaza
The new Strang Chef Collective food hall planned for the Cascade Hotel being just north of the Country Club Plaza is considered by its operator a “bullish” vote of confidence in the venerable shopping district.
...
The new food hall, which is expected to open in August, will occupy parts of two levels in the Cascade. It will feature four chef-driven concepts and two bars. Craft said commitments have been made for two restaurant spaces and a third is nearing completion.

There will be two food concepts and a bar on the ground level accessed by an entrance at the corner of 46th Terrace and Wornall. Upstairs on the lobby level, there will be two more food concepts and a bar that will open with an 80-seat outdoor patio overlooking the Plaza.

The Strang Chef Collective also will provide room service to guests at both hotels, the Aloft is connected to the Cascade, and also catering for activities at the Cascade’s event space. Chefs from the entire collective, not just the Cascade, will be able to cater there.

Strang Chef Collective also has operations at the Edison Building in Old Overland Park and the lightwell office tower in downtown Kansas City. The Collective will occupy about 11,000 square-feet in the Cascade hotel.
...
https://cityscenekc.com/late-summer-ope ... nTruwlmYXk
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by msmith011 »

FangKC wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:31 am Societal changes are responsible for this. People in general don't dress up as much as they used to in the past. Casual clothing has seen the most growth.

In addition, people's incomes have not kept pace with inflation for 40 years so fewer and fewer people can afford upscale anything. More of their budgets go to needs than wants.

High-end shops have been affected the most. Many have closed stores in the hinterland cities. Many only do well in New York, Boston, Washington DC, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia, Miami, Palm Beach, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

About 43 percent of the nation's household wealth is in four states; 50 percent of the wealth is in six states. Those numbers are skewed by a tiny fraction of the state residents who are multimillionaires or billionaires. It doesn't mean everyone in New York has money to blow. It just means there are more wealthy households in those states. These are the people who shop in high-end stores.

Some wealthy people live in more than one place. They may have a house where their business is, but live in another city a good deal of the time. They do their high-end shopping in the other city because their home city can't support the high-end shops.

Secondly, more Americans see Bloomingdale's Nordstrom's, Macy's, and Dillard's as out of reach for their budgets. They shop at stores like JC Penney, Walmart, Target, TJ Maxx, Marshall's, and Burlington Coat Factory. We are also seeing more people shopping online so physical stores don't see the foot traffic and are more expensive to operate.

The Plaza struggles because our Metro's affluent neighborhoods keep moving further outward. It can have some upscale businesses, but it needs to return to serving the neighborhoods around it, and building more density.
I get what you're saying, but I have a hard time believing Kansas City can't support high-end shopping. Despite economic challenges, the luxury sector has performed very well in recent years; just look at LVMH, which owns Louis Vuitton, Tiffany & Co., etc. I liken it to the airline industry. The vast majority of people can't afford first class, but flights -- especially international -- are profitable because of the small number of people who pay for those seats.

In the past year-plus, Gucci has opened standalone stores in Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Nashville, Portland, Sacramento, St. Louis -- Kansas City's peers. These big brands know there's a market for luxury in tier two and three cities, especially in the midwest, because we've been ignored. I would argue that the reason we've lost luxury stores on the Plaza (St. John, Burberry) has more to do with the way the Plaza has been managed vs. people not willing to spend.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by taxi »

FangKC wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:31 am Secondly, more Americans see Bloomingdale's Nordstrom's, Macy's, and Dillard's as out of reach for their budgets. They shop at stores like JC Penney, Walmart, Target, TJ Maxx, Marshall's, and Burlington Coat Factory.
Fang, you forgot... ROSS DRESS 4 LESS!
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

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msmith011 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:40 am I would argue that the reason we've lost luxury stores on the Plaza (St. John, Burberry) has more to do with the way the Plaza has been managed vs. people not willing to spend.
The demographic shift of wealth in Kansas City to the south Leawood area and the rest of Johnson County south of I-435 has hit the plaza hard. There is still wealth in the Plaza area but it's a smaller number now in comparison to what is out south. As I have said before, the plaza needs gentrification on a fairly hefty scale in the neighborhoods to the north and east to survive as a retail area that offers higher end items. It's unique enough to bring people there from out of the area for dining but there is so much retail competition now in south Johnson County and it struggles to compete in that arena.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes »

Highlander wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:01 am As I have said before, the plaza needs gentrification on a fairly hefty scale in the neighborhoods to the north and east to survive as a retail area that offers higher end items.
This is part of the problem. Walk north or east of the Plaza and you won't really find any real neighborhoods for many several blocks.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TheLastGentleman »

KC has a bit of a penny-pinching culture, in my experience, that somewhat transcends class. Finding good deals becomes a game
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander »

beautyfromashes wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:05 pm
Highlander wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:01 am As I have said before, the plaza needs gentrification on a fairly hefty scale in the neighborhoods to the north and east to survive as a retail area that offers higher end items.
This is part of the problem. Walk north or east of the Plaza and you won't really find any real neighborhoods for many several blocks.
North Plaza is a real neighborhood. It's just small and not particularly dense in the western half. The area around the Plaza is landlocked now and the only way to create more wealth is greater density and gentrification.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by moderne »

A problem is that's the reason so much wealth in in SoJoCo. They do not want to live in greater density and gentrification. Maybe upgrade the single family homes areas in KC north of 63rd in the near east. Most high earners want more than a 1600 sq ft condo/apt.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by smh »

moderne wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:27 pm A problem is that's the reason so much wealth in in SoJoCo. They do not want to live in greater density and gentrification. Maybe upgrade the single family homes areas in KC north of 63rd in the near east. Most high earners want more than a 1600 sq ft condo/apt.
This...feels like it is missing a few reasons that people moved to JoCo...can't quite put my finger on it...
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

smh wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:00 pm
moderne wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:27 pm A problem is that's the reason so much wealth in in SoJoCo. They do not want to live in greater density and gentrification. Maybe upgrade the single family homes areas in KC north of 63rd in the near east. Most high earners want more than a 1600 sq ft condo/apt.
This...feels like it is missing a few reasons that people moved to JoCo...can't quite put my finger on it...
Muh schools! Muh crime! He is right about the others as well. And yep we all know what else…
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by chrizow »

i dont particularly understand why we care whether the Plaza has stores like LV, Gucci, Prada, or whatever--and i completely agree KC could never support stores like that, unless it's maybe an LV store that sells basically nothing but purses. those stores thrive in places with, yes, more wealth, but also which attract international visitors who drop $ on luxury goods. also brick and mortar retail is circling the drain in all sectors. the plaza will need to undergo a complete vision change to survive or thrive. a "fancy mall in 100 year old buildings" isn't going to cut it.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by smh »

chrizow wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:42 pm i dont particularly understand why we care whether the Plaza has stores like LV, Gucci, Prada, or whatever--and i completely agree KC could never support stores like that, unless it's maybe an LV store that sells basically nothing but purses. those stores thrive in places with, yes, more wealth, but also which attract international visitors who drop $ on luxury goods. also brick and mortar retail is circling the drain in all sectors. the plaza will need to undergo a complete vision change to survive or thrive. a "fancy mall in 100 year old buildings" isn't going to cut it.
Agreed. The path to success for the plaza is to introduce more residential density and letting that guide a new mix of interesting retail and restaurant spaces centered around reimagined streets that put pedestrians first.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander »

chrizow wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:42 pm i dont particularly understand why we care whether the Plaza has stores like LV, Gucci, Prada, or whatever--and i completely agree KC could never support stores like that, unless it's maybe an LV store that sells basically nothing but purses. those stores thrive in places with, yes, more wealth, but also which attract international visitors who drop $ on luxury goods. also brick and mortar retail is circling the drain in all sectors. the plaza will need to undergo a complete vision change to survive or thrive. a "fancy mall in 100 year old buildings" isn't going to cut it.
The Plaza doesn't need those types of stores. Not even south Johnson County has much of that. Frankly, I just think KC is too casual of a city to support the super high end clothing stores. That said, it would be great if the Plaza could keep up with south Johnson County on offering the higher end products that are available in the KC area. That would be consistent with the attempt to keep the Plaza as a top notch restaurant and entertainment area. It doesn't mean that the Plaza needs to be entirely high end, but having that available has a lot of advantages to KC (tax base, giving higher income people a reason to live in KC, keeps the Plaza a tourist draw, etc...).
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

The appropriate balance for the Plaza at this point is maybe tenants that target about 75% 250 mile draw, 25% 3-mile draw. Drop some (not all) of the corporate restaurants and add a few more small quaint neighborhood restaurants/cafes (Rye is too big, too mega not-local feeling). Drop 10% of the retail space and add nightlife, whether regional or 3-mile draw. Dedicate just 2 spaces for key neighborhood amenities, a market and drug store. Accept more residential within official Plaza boundaries. And definitely change Nichols Road to mostly Ped only, offer a notable change that refreshes The Plaza with a Real Actual Plaza.

You'll still have an environment friendly to region/tourists and a much more functional neighborhood village that visitors would likely appreciate much more than a generic homogenized corporate mall district.

And it's time for downtown to offer broader real retail including corporate chains that Plaza would tend to draw. Make both districts livable while targeting regional and locals - each district with their own vibe but still fully functional with all the basics expected. Just a couple more years and the streetcar ties it all together.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Imarealperson »

GRID wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:17 pm
trailerkid wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:56 am
GRID wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:31 am

Yeah, okay, they don't even have an Eataly in DC.
That is the point.
My point is there is zero chance of them coming to KC. We have to go to the one in NYC. I have been to them in Italy too. I don't see KC being a large enough city to support a store like that. I mean the plaza can't even get Nordstrom's and I doubt Dillard's will happen. Pass by a gate at any airport with a flight going to KC an half the people look like they are going to a sporting event. So, maybe another rally house lol.

The people that run the plaza are lost. The plaza needs more density in its core. It needs more entertainment, outside dining, social areas. It's needs less pavement for cars and parked cars and more for pedestrians, cafes etc.

The design of the plaza is really out of date and out of touch with modern urban walkable areas. Till they fix that, it will struggle to remain relevant.
We can now go to the Eataly in Dallas. Much closer.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by FangKC »

The Country Club Plaza adds an escape room as its newest tenant\
...
Nashville-based The Escape Game is opening at 320 Ward Parkway next to Seasons 52. The space was formerly occupied by bridal boutique Ricca Sposa, which relocated to downtown Kansas City at 1914 Main St. The Escape Game plans a summer opening.
...
Some of the other new tenants slated for the Plaza include a Levi's store, which plans to open at 441 Nichols Road, and Kura Revolving Sushi Bar, which plans to open at 200 W. 47th St. inside the former t.Loft eatery.

Kura combines Japanese cuisine with a high-tech and interactive experience. The restaurant delivers food to guests via a double-layer conveyer belt that weaves through the dining room, and robots drop off drink orders. The company owns more than 30 patents, including for its ventilated sushi lid.

Ear-piercing studio Rowan plans a spring opening for its first store in Missouri and the Kansas City metro at 225 Nichols Rd. The space previously was occupied by Pink Lipps Cosmetics.
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... plaza.html
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by kcjak »

I feel like the new sushi place could be successful in a location even bigger than the t.Loft space.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by msmith011 »

chrizow wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:42 pm i dont particularly understand why we care whether the Plaza has stores like LV, Gucci, Prada, or whatever--and i completely agree KC could never support stores like that, unless it's maybe an LV store that sells basically nothing but purses. those stores thrive in places with, yes, more wealth, but also which attract international visitors who drop $ on luxury goods. also brick and mortar retail is circling the drain in all sectors. the plaza will need to undergo a complete vision change to survive or thrive. a "fancy mall in 100 year old buildings" isn't going to cut it.
Right, so the plethora of international visitors going to Indianapolis, Columbus, etc. are why they have Louis and Gucci.

These stores are good for the city's image, and it differentiates the Plaza from places like Oak Park Mall, Town Center Plaza, etc. At least they're not Claire's or Lens Crafters.

I agree the Plaza needs more density, more housing options, and a greater variety of stores for every day residents. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't add a store or two for people who want luxury goods. There is wealth in KC and there are people who want these goods. And, more and more, people who aren't considered traditionally "wealthy" are buying these goods.

Also, Louis and Gucci don't sell anything but bags, small leather goods, and accessories at the vast majority of small market stores. They know their audience. They know we don't want $10,000 jackets.
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