Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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Highlander
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander »

WoodDraw wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:45 am
GRID wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:22 am How could KC start a grass roots effort to convert Nichols Road into a pedestrian promenade (would need to maintain very limited access to vehicles).

This should be a top priority. Too bad nobody reads the KC Star anymore. It would be a great opinion article contribution to get the idea out.
I think asking the star to publish that might kill their last employee.

Is there an urban neighborhood here more NIMBY than the plaza? I think even the more urban moved plaza residents would be against zoning reform.

It's plaza art fair weekend, and I mentioned to someone that they try events like this on a smaller scale to see how it works and they rolled their eyes. The pandemic would have been a great time to workshop it.

I don't know the plaza community well and if there's anyone pushing for change.
I realize that NIMBY'ism is rife in the Plaza area but I do not understand why. With maybe the exception of the Crossroads, in terms of construction, it is the most dynamic neighborhood in KC. There is always a construction project further transforming the area. I do not understand why they would object to closing Nichols Road to auto traffic or more events on the Plaza (or for that matter, more development in the neighborhood as it seems to be happening on a fairly fast pace anyway). All of that enhances the area.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by taxi »

The demographics around the plaza are changing as the original "savers" die off or move away. I imagine by the time the streetcar is running, there will be very few of those folks left and I sense a change in attitude as the population becomes younger. I can see big improvements possible to zoning and like areas but changing ownership and/or management to a company that is more ambitious and progressive will help tremendously.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by im2kull »

I've been saying this forever. And not just in the plaza. However, almost everyone you bump into in the US wants and believes that pedestrian plazas can't succeed, so they don't. Despite the fact that they do everywhere else in the world.
im2kull wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:52 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:50 am
im2kull wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:41 am The unimaginative minds of Americans never fail to amaze me. You're given a blank canvas, and that's all you can come up with? LOL
Show us your proposal
Go google photos of any European city core. You'll find that nearly every city has a landmark pedestrian street full of activity. Tons of retail, dining, and PEOPLE. That's probably a great place to start. There's a reason virtually every city in Europe has at least one major pedestrian street.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by normalthings »

taxi wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:50 am The demographics around the plaza are changing as the original "savers" die off or move away. I imagine by the time the streetcar is running, there will be very few of those folks left and I sense a change in attitude as the population becomes younger. I can see big improvements possible to zoning and like areas but changing ownership and/or management to a company that is more ambitious and progressive will help tremendously.
Arent shields and bunch proposing to further crack down on height around Plaza?
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Cratedigger »

normalthings wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:32 pm
taxi wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:50 am The demographics around the plaza are changing as the original "savers" die off or move away. I imagine by the time the streetcar is running, there will be very few of those folks left and I sense a change in attitude as the population becomes younger. I can see big improvements possible to zoning and like areas but changing ownership and/or management to a company that is more ambitious and progressive will help tremendously.
Arent shields and bunch proposing to further crack down on height around Plaza?
I’m not sure. Hope not.

https://twitter.com/ericwbunch/status/ ... 6X_WfsWOag
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by FlippantCitizen »

normalthings wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:32 pm
taxi wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:50 am The demographics around the plaza are changing as the original "savers" die off or move away. I imagine by the time the streetcar is running, there will be very few of those folks left and I sense a change in attitude as the population becomes younger. I can see big improvements possible to zoning and like areas but changing ownership and/or management to a company that is more ambitious and progressive will help tremendously.
Arent shields and bunch proposing to further crack down on height around Plaza?
What have you seen that makes you say that? Genuinely curious, I bother both of their offices on occasion and would be glad to pass on some Plaza specific KCRag ideas.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by GRID »

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ields.html
Future Country Club Plaza buildings seeking height variances may face significantly less wiggle room, thanks to a proposed policy from a familiar alliance of stakeholders.

An ordinance would amend the Plaza Bowl Overlay District to stipulate, "In no event shall the City Council grant a (building height) deviation in excess of the lesser of 10% of the height limitations set forth in this ordinance, or six feet, or which shall add any occupiable floor space."
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by normalthings »

FlippantCitizen wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:37 pm
normalthings wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:32 pm
taxi wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:50 am The demographics around the plaza are changing as the original "savers" die off or move away. I imagine by the time the streetcar is running, there will be very few of those folks left and I sense a change in attitude as the population becomes younger. I can see big improvements possible to zoning and like areas but changing ownership and/or management to a company that is more ambitious and progressive will help tremendously.
Arent shields and bunch proposing to further crack down on height around Plaza?
What have you seen that makes you say that? Genuinely curious, I bother both of their offices on occasion and would be glad to pass on some Plaza specific KCRag ideas.
I was referencing this ordinance. They can get kind of confusing sometimes but I had thought this is the "crack down on variances" one.

Sponsors: Andrea Bough, Katheryn Shields, Eric Bunch

https://kansascity.legistar.com/Legisla ... arch=plaza
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Rusty Irish »

im2kull wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:31 pm I've been saying this forever. And not just in the plaza. However, almost everyone you bump into in the US wants and believes that pedestrian plazas can't succeed, so they don't. Despite the fact that they do everywhere else in the world.
im2kull wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:52 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:50 am

Show us your proposal
Go google photos of any European city core. You'll find that nearly every city has a landmark pedestrian street full of activity. Tons of retail, dining, and PEOPLE. That's probably a great place to start. There's a reason virtually every city in Europe has at least one major pedestrian street.
Its the American suburban mentality. Its all about your car, how far you need to travel and where you can park, a misplaced fear of crime. The masses don't care about the bigger picture. Where I live just now in the UK would be classed as a provincial city, and it is not without its problems in the core, but we have virtually no tall buildings and I find our urban core to be significantly more vibrant than KC or almost any other middle ranking US city - we have a pedestrian plaza that must be closer to a mile long, other than a few occasional crossings. We have 100k students downtown, expansive transit, our three main stadiums are within three miles walking of the epicentre of the city. The more we cluster things in or close to the city it will increase the need and the appetite to leave your car at home instead.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

Rusty Irish wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:38 pm Its the American suburban mentality. Its all about your car, how far you need to travel and where you can park, a misplaced fear of crime. The masses don't care about the bigger picture. Where I live just now in the UK would be classed as a provincial city, and it is not without its problems in the core, but we have virtually no tall buildings and I find our urban core to be significantly more vibrant than KC or almost any other middle ranking US city - we have a pedestrian plaza that must be closer to a mile long, other than a few occasional crossings. We have 100k students downtown, expansive transit, our three main stadiums are within three miles walking of the epicentre of the city. The more we cluster things in or close to the city it will increase the need and the appetite to leave your car at home instead.
I keep trying to tell people it's not about skyline, it's about infill, infill, infill. Target every last surface lot.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Rusty Irish »

UMKC Roo wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:40 pm
Rusty Irish wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:38 pm Its the American suburban mentality. Its all about your car, how far you need to travel and where you can park, a misplaced fear of crime. The masses don't care about the bigger picture. Where I live just now in the UK would be classed as a provincial city, and it is not without its problems in the core, but we have virtually no tall buildings and I find our urban core to be significantly more vibrant than KC or almost any other middle ranking US city - we have a pedestrian plaza that must be closer to a mile long, other than a few occasional crossings. We have 100k students downtown, expansive transit, our three main stadiums are within three miles walking of the epicentre of the city. The more we cluster things in or close to the city it will increase the need and the appetite to leave your car at home instead.
I keep trying to tell people it's not about skyline, it's about infill, infill, infill. Target every last surface lot.
Pretty much. Skyscrapers are nice but they're a cockwaving contest in some ways.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by GRID »

Hmm, maybe there is some people already talking about this.

https://fox4kc.com/business/kc-mayor-ca ... 3rtd7sYtGg
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by FlippantCitizen »

The pedestrianization of Nichols has been consistently advocated for on the Rag. Though it is an obvious idea, I'd like to think we got to mayor Q on this one.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

This guy did a brilliant map of how they can pedestrianize the Plaza. It preserves parking and maximizes walking! Check it out

https://twitter.com/ThomasCuezze/status ... 42WNUA1vFQ
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

Two blocks on the E end of Nichols would be a good start for permanent closure and rest of Nichols for events and/or weekend holidays.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander »

FlippantCitizen wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:07 pm The pedestrianization of Nichols has been consistently advocated for on the Rag. Though it is an obvious idea, I'd like to think we got to mayor Q on this one.
Highlander wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:55 pm Just got back from the Plaza Art Fair. What an excellent event - KC should be proud of hosting that. The Plaza Arts Fair makes one of the strongest arguments for permanently closing off Nichols Road as a pedestrian only street. Obviously, something akin to the art fair is not going to happen every week but it was a pleasure strolling down the street and enjoying the Plaza without being confined to the sidewalk. Such an obvious choice; hard to believe it hasn't happened yet.
I posted this on Saturday just after returning from the Art Fair. Maybe the mayor read it!? I doubt it though, such a no-brainer, half of KC has probably thought the same at some point in time.
UMKC Roo wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:25 am This guy did a brilliant map of how they can pedestrianize the Plaza. It preserves parking and maximizes walking! Check it out

https://twitter.com/ThomasCuezze/status ... 42WNUA1vFQ
That works. I had envisioned closing the lesser streets like Wyandotte, Pennsylvania and Central past the entrances to the garages and keeping Wornall open but that works too.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Hi Mayor Q. If you read this, join in on the fun.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

Some examples of what Nichols could become...
viewtopic.php?p=565582

Change vote if you'd like.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander »

earthling wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:06 am Some examples of what Nichols could become...
viewtopic.php?p=565582

Change vote if you'd like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestria ... ted_States

List of pedestrian streets in United States. Colorado, California and NY seem to have the most but a fair amount in Texas and a few other states. One closer to home pedestrian street I had no idea even existed is Commercial Street in Atchison Kansas. Almost every European city has a portion of the center pedestrianized (I probably like Munich the best) but those aren't great examples for KC as the density of those cities is so much greater than most midwestern American cities.
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