Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
earthling wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:05 pm
Though when is the last time Plaza vacancy hit over 15% and owner approaching bankruptcy. Ever happen? Rest of metro is 3-8% vacancy, urban core under 4%..
Easy with the facts, earthling. The reality that the Plaza is close to 20% vacant with longstanding tenants leaving by the day, is all just a “BS exaggeration” that the district is in a state of decline.
Just need a couple convenience stores, a trolly stop and a healthy dose of denial.
Last edited by MidtownCat on Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:26 pm
The plaza is dying started about 1960 I'd guess. Definitely predates almost everybody posting here
It was thriving up to the 1980's and really into the 1990's. The plaza was all KCMO had back then as far as urban bustle with retail, entertainment etc.
The Plaza really started to go downhill when the business and cooperate economy started leaving for Kansas. The Plaza was fine up to the 80's when it was just basic middle class residential growth in JoCo, but once that growth shifted to office buildings, CEO homes etc, the plaza started losing tenants and shoppers.
Now the Plaza is trying to compete with Downtown again too. I really do think that KC is big enough to support a vibrant plaza and a vibrant downtown even with a majority of its economy now in JoCo, but the Plaza needs some major changes by the owners, the city and the people that are trying to "save" it.
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:46 pm
Definitely remember older people taking about the plaza dying in the 90s. It's as old as the plaza itself.
That's why I said "into the 90's". I'm sure some people always though it was dying simply because it was changing, but plaza was really doing quite well into the early 90's.
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:46 pm
Definitely remember older people taking about the plaza dying in the 90s. It's as old as the plaza itself.
From a neighborhood perspective the Plaza was perceived to be 'going downhill' in 90s because Highwoods took ownership then and ignored the neighborhood, grocery/pharmacy disappeared. And they wanted to turn it into an office park (such as tearing down Park Lane apts, which failed and went hotel instead). And they wanted to tear down Classic Cup Cafe and another prime corner. But even with crime problems throughout and large income shifting south, Plaza financially did well until newest owners. Pandemic was a factor but they were milking Plaza even before pandemic hit.
What's going on now is on the new owners.. not diversified enough to be healthy enough to improve Plaza for the times, they're just milking it. City isn't to blame for current problems, they come into play to change existing bowl requirements. There are many improvements that could be made within existing restrictions with a stronger owner - less mall focus, more nightlife, etc. Changing Nichols Rd to a public Plaza may involve City but probably fairly easier to pull off especially if named after MLK, Cleaver, Gates or Monarchs reference.
I'm leaving the Plaza when my term is up because there's just nothing useful on it. Definitely going downtown so I can get daily services. It gets really boring when the only option is fine dining or stores I need to go to once a year. If the streetcar was here I'd consider staying because then I could atleast get to basic needs without car.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:10 pm
I'm leaving the Plaza when my term is up because there's just nothing useful on it. Definitely going downtown so I can get daily services. It gets really boring when the only option is fine dining or stores I need to go to once a year. If the streetcar was here I'd consider staying because then I could atleast get to basic needs without car.
I've been on the West Plaza for nearly a decade and wouldn't trade it for anywhere
I'd re-evaluate if streetcar was here but I don't think I can stomach holding out for late 2024
So sad the devolution. When I lived on 46th Terrace in 1989 I was half a block from Macys and an independent drug store. 2 skinny blocks from a small grocer and also a Cinnamon roll shop. And some cheaper dining options in what was Seville Square.
^That's not what's been talked about. It's the 15%+ vacancy (compared to under 4% rest of city core), a weak owner not bringing anything new to Plaza and lack of neighborhood amenities. Having the foot traffic and not willing/able to invest adapting Plaza to this era means they are milking it.
earthling wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:55 pm
^That's not what's been talked about. It's the 15%+ vacancy (compared to under 4% rest of city core), a weak owner not bringing anything new to Plaza and lack of neighborhood amenities. Having the foot traffic and not willing/able to invest adapting Plaza to this era means they are milking it.
Earthling I understand that is what your point about the Plaza is, but the “Joined in 2004” crowd is trying to push the narrative that it’s just dead and dying and nobody cares about the Plaza anymore. And obviously they’re wrong but what can you do convince stubborn people.
Fountains wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:33 pm
Was on the plaza Friday night. All the talk of being dead is absolutely ridiculous there were lots of people out.
I certainly get echoes of the "no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded" when people talk about certain areas of KC "dying" or "declining" or whatever.
There was a shooting there in 2021 that got a lot of press. The hotel has a lot of heigth presence walking around it, but it feels disconnected due to the vacant frontage towards 47th street, and 47th st. itself, as well as vacant lots to the rear.
Also painting it will go a long way. The color is pretty ugly. Hopeful something dense can be adde in the giant lot behind it.
Johnny Was, an upscale women's clothing retailer which describes itself as "luxury boho," has submitted plans for a store at 320 Nichols, a corner space that is/was Matches Boutique. This is a definite win for the Plaza considering they would have fit right in at Town Center Plaza.
msmith011 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:22 pm
Johnny Was, an upscale women's clothing retailer which describes itself as "luxury boho," has submitted plans for a store at 320 Nichols, a corner space that is/was Matches Boutique. This is a definite win for the Plaza considering they would have fit right in at Town Center Plaza.
Enjoy the incoming hoards from the ‘joined in 2004’ crew coming for you now
Johnny Was looks great. This is a nice add along with Psycho Bunny recently opening.
Any updates on the imaginary development projects on the lot next to Winsteads that are supposed to save the Plaza? Some weirdo on here was talking that up a couple weeks back.
msmith011 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:22 pm
Johnny Was, an upscale women's clothing retailer which describes itself as "luxury boho," has submitted plans for a store at 320 Nichols, a corner space that is/was Matches Boutique. This is a definite win for the Plaza considering they would have fit right in at Town Center Plaza.
Enjoy the incoming hoards from the ‘joined in 2004’ crew coming for you now
I don't understand the joke you are trying to make here. People that have been here a while are the ones actually bringing real news to this site
I didn't join until 2007 but I am the OG luxury boho and single-handedly started the cargo pants craze. Then I brought it back again. And then again. And I am coming for you now, pockets full of downtown stadiums and medical marijuana.
msmith011 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:22 pm
Johnny Was, an upscale women's clothing retailer which describes itself as "luxury boho," has submitted plans for a store at 320 Nichols, a corner space that is/was Matches Boutique. This is a definite win for the Plaza considering they would have fit right in at Town Center Plaza.
Enjoy the incoming hoards from the ‘joined in 2004’ crew coming for you now
I don't understand the joke you are trying to make here. People that have been here a while are the ones actually bringing real news to this site
Agree partially. Some newer posters (Chris, DCole, Northpoint guy, Burns & Mac gal, Craig, Myself, etc) to the page too. But yea the poster you reference isn’t a news source. Obviously not everyone can bring news so having conversationalists is great too they just need to be more based.
taxi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:37 am
I didn't join until 2007 but I am the OG luxury boho and single-handedly started the cargo pants craze. Then I brought it back again. And then again. And I am coming for you now, pockets full of downtown stadiums and medical marijuana.
Enjoy the incoming hoards from the ‘joined in 2004’ crew coming for you now
I don't understand the joke you are trying to make here. People that have been here a while are the ones actually bringing real news to this site
Agree partially. Some newer posters (Chris, DCole, Northpoint guy, Burns & Mac gal, Craig, Myself, etc) to the page too. But yea the poster you reference isn’t a news source. Obviously not everyone can bring news so having conversationalists is great too they just need to be more based.
Pretty confident kcp wasn't thinking about you here.
