Ferguson, Missouri

[chaglang]

The county autopsy seems to confirm the family's autopsy, and with the added mention that Brown has marijuana in his system. It may or may not be deliberate, but it feels like another distraction.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html

Obviously last night was a complete mess. Has there been any corroboration of the police claim that they were were nearly overrun with people throwing Molotov cocktails? IIRC that was their reason for starting up with the tear gas again.

[mean]

I wonder how the NRA types would feel if the law abiding citizens of Ferguson were exercising their right to protest with AR-15s.

[chaglang]

Guessing they would be calling it a race war.

Short of everyone simply going home, there doesn't seem to be any scenario that doesn't confirm at least some part of the fringe right's apocalyptic fantasies. It wouldn't be surprising to see the current situation used to make the case that the police/government are dangerous, and that blacks need to be more heavily policed.

[AllThingsKC]

I'm not sure this hurts the NRA's cause at all. There have been business owners protecting their business with guns since the police were unable or unwilling to do so. While that's not the same as protesting with guns, the business owners were still exercising their rights to defend themselves.

Luckily, there hasn't been a ban on guns yet, so the business owners were able to protect their property from rioters and looters.

[phuqueue]

Right now there are conflicting stories about a fight or not. And the autopsy performed and released by the family details the shots fired but not from what distance. NO GSR on Brown but his clothing has not been analyzed nor has the police officers gun been studied to see if there is any of Brown's DNA on it.

In other words still some unknowns out there.

The autopsy confirmed that the shots weren't at close range. The story, which even his buddy Dorian Johnson more or less corroborates, is that there was a physical altercation between Brown and Wilson at the car (Johnson of course tells it with Wilson as the aggressor, the PD tells it the other way around, but it's inconsequential). We know that Brown was ultimately shot 35 feet away from the car. Multiple eyewitnesses state that he was running away and Wilson was chasing him. The PD has not yet offered an explanation of what happened between the car and the spot where Brown fell, which is pretty curious -- and because it doesn't offer a contradictory story (or any story at all), couldn't really be called "conflicting."

CNN was reporting this morning that an anonymous "source," supposedly a friend of Wilson's, claims that Wilson said Brown was rushing at him. If anybody who was actually present came out and actually made this claim, that would be a conflicting story. The PD has not, as far as I've heard so far, put this story out itself though. I'd also think Wilson's lawyers would have advised him very sternly not to go mouthing off to friends about the case. So until the source is identified or Wilson or the PD claims that version of the story directly, it's not much of a conflict. Even if they do step up and claim that's what happened, it's a bizarre story. We're expected to believe that Brown was rushing across open terrain at a man firing a gun at him. He was shot twice in the head, and these were supposedly the last two shots, so he had at least four bullets in him already as he continued supposedly charging (or he was sufficiently incapacitated by those shots but Wilson kept firing -- which is murder). And the whole story becomes, essentially: he robbed a store, got caught jaywalking, assaulted a cop, tried to steal the cop's gun, ran away when the cop opened fire on him, turned around, charged back at him as the cop continued to fire at him, died in the street. I guess I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but...

I'm not sure this hurts the NRA's cause at all. There have been business owners protecting their business with guns since the police were unable or unwilling to do so. While that's not the same as protesting with guns, the business owners were still exercising their rights to defend themselves.

Luckily, there hasn't been a ban on guns yet, so the business owners were able to protect their property from rioters and looters.

The protesters themselves have been protecting local businesses.

[AllThingsKC]

The protesters themselves have been protecting local businesses.

With guns?

[aknowledgeableperson]

The autopsy confirmed that the shots weren't at close range.

In the interview with the person who conducted the autopsy he did say there was no GSR on the victim but he did not rule out the possibility of GSR on the victim's clothing, something he has not seen by the time of the interview.
news.msn.com/us/dont-know-if-missouri-teen-shot-with-hands-u

Baden also said there was no gun-power residue on Brown's body, indicating he was not shot at close range. However, Baden said he did not have access to Brown's clothing, and that it was possible the residue could be on the clothing.

news.msn.com/us/autopsy-finds-unarmed-teen-killed-by-police-was

The bullets, some of which left as many as five wounds, did not appear to have been fired from very close range, the Times reported, because no gunpowder was detected on his body. That conclusion could change, however, if gunshot residue is found on Brown's clothing, the newspaper said.

[phuqueue]

The protesters themselves have been protecting local businesses.

With guns?

I don't know but given the situation on the ground in Ferguson I would probably not want to be a black person with a gun right now.

I guess given the situation in America I wouldn't want to be a black person ever.

[AllThingsKC]

I don't know but given the situation on the ground in Ferguson I would probably not want to be a black person with a gun right now.

Why's that? Seems only the unarmed blacks get hurt.

[chaglang]

I'm not sure this hurts the NRA's cause at all. There have been business owners protecting their business with guns since the police were unable or unwilling to do so. While that's not the same as protesting with guns, the business owners were still exercising their rights to defend themselves.

Luckily, there hasn't been a ban on guns yet, so the business owners were able to protect their property from rioters and looters.

Ok, but there really hasn't been much that the police aren't willing to do. I haven't seen any mention of shop owners fending off looters with guns. Can you post a link? Curious.

I have seen stories about protestors protecting stores: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/1 ... 84042.html

I don't know but given the situation on the ground in Ferguson I would probably not want to be a black person with a gun right now.

Why's that? Seems only the unarmed blacks get hurt.

You think that having people firing back at the police is going to get fewer people hurt? Come on. Figure that somewhere between 30 and 40% of Ferguson has at least one gun. That's the national average. That makes it pretty likely that someone being tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets either has a gun on them or has easy access to one. Their fate hasn't been any different than anyone else's. It couldn't be; the police presence is designed to be completely overwhelming. They could take some shots at the police, but what would that accomplish? You've seen what law enforcement does to unarmed people and journalists. In a lot of ways the residents of Ferguson, armed and unarmed, have shown more restraint than the people who are supposed to be protecting them. Maybe that's playing into the NRA's narrative, but it also underscores that even if you are armed you have zero chance against law enforcement.

I'm more surprised that the police haven't accidentally shot anyone yet, given how they're pointing their guns at anyone.
"Police advancing on crowd. Guns drawn. Media ordered to stay in taped off area. https://twitter.com/EliKMBC/statuses/501591669679329280"

[im2kull]

Already tired of reading the comments in this thread. Subscribed.

[KCMax]

Tear gas can't be used by troops in war, but its cool if a small town police department uses it.

“The use of tear gas in … situations of civil unrest, however, demonstrates that exposure to the weapon is difficult to control and indiscriminate, and the weapon is often not used correctly,” wrote Howard Hu in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1989. “Severe traumatic injury from exploding tear gas bombs as well as lethal toxic injury have been documented.” Hu found that if exposed to “high levels of CS,” some victims experienced heart failure or even death.

[phuqueue]

One thing it sounds like protesters and cops agree on: to the extent that the protests themselves have been violent a lot of it appears to be the doing of out of state white anarchists and communists (uhh, yeah, in 2014). Which, "anarchists" are always the convenient scapegoat, but now there are photographs and videos of people being arrested, being pushed out of the protests by other protesters, etc. Not to say that none of the local residents have protested violently -- there were probably not many white provocateurs in REVOLUTION t-shirts on the very first night of "looting," when the gas station burned down -- but it's important to bear in mind that the legitimate protesters have been mostly peaceful and have been documented attempting to protect local businesses from looting, while a non-local element has turned up (reports that some of the 31 people arrested last night hail from as far away as California and New York) to try to manipulate and exploit the situation for their own ends.

Apparently even a lot of the looters are also just coming from out of town because it's easier to steal things during mass demonstrations: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ingtonpost

Cops have also said a lot about "bottles" being thrown -- apparently CNN asked for clarification last night and they are plastic water bottles.

[AllThingsKC]

Ok, but there really hasn't been much that the police aren't willing to do. I haven't seen any mention of shop owners fending off looters with guns. Can you post a link? Curious.

Yes.

http://toprightnews.com/?p=5136

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... damage.php

http://misguidedchildren.com/justice/20 ... wont/28164

http://downtrend.com/brian-carey/surpri ... -citizens/

Bonus link: The reason why store owners had to protect their stores themselves is because police were ordered to stand down Friday night. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-1 ... stand-down

You think that having people firing back at the police is going to get fewer people hurt?

No, not at all.

[AllThingsKC]

Liberal activists set up voter registration booth where Michael Brown was killed.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Where the hell are the mayor and city council in all of this? Why no city meetings to discuss the police response? Why no city meetings to discuss the ham handed police chief? It seems like the lack of a local political response has been a major contributor to the situation festering on for days on end.

[im2kull]

Tear gas can't be used by troops in war, but its cool if a small town police department uses it.

“The use of tear gas in … situations of civil unrest, however, demonstrates that exposure to the weapon is difficult to control and indiscriminate, and the weapon is often not used correctly,” wrote Howard Hu in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1989. “Severe traumatic injury from exploding tear gas bombs as well as lethal toxic injury have been documented.” Hu found that if exposed to “high levels of CS,” some victims experienced heart failure or even death.

The "Tear Gas" they're using in Ferguson is a far cry from Military Grade CS Gas. There's no comparison. If you're within 20ft of real CS gas you won't be able to control your eyes, your mouth, or many other things. You're a stumbling, crawling, drooling, blinded, fool. They should be lucky that real CS isn't being used in Ferguson..

[KCMax]

Where the hell are the mayor and city council in all of this? Why no city meetings to discuss the police response? Why no city meetings to discuss the ham handed police chief? It seems like the lack of a local political response has been a major contributor to the situation festering on for days on end.

In Ferguson, Black Town, White Power

Majority-black Ferguson has a virtually all-white power structure: a white mayor; a school board with six white members and one Hispanic, which recently suspended a highly regarded young black superintendent who then resigned; a City Council with just one black member; and a 6 percent black police force......

Many North County towns — and inner-ring suburbs nationally — resemble Ferguson. Longtime white residents have consolidated power, continuing to dominate the City Councils and school boards despite sweeping demographic change. They have retained control of patronage jobs and municipal contracts awarded to allies.

The North County Labor Club, whose overwhelmingly white constituent unions (plumbers, pipe fitters, electrical workers, sprinkler fitters) have benefited from these arrangements, operates a potent voter-turnout operation that backs white candidates over black upstarts. The more municipal contracts an organization receives, the more generously it can fund re-election campaigns. Construction, waste and other long-term contracts with private firms have traditionally excluded blacks from the ownership side and, usually, the work force as well.

[phuqueue]

They should be lucky that real CS isn't being used in Ferguson..

Yes, thank god for the benevolent police, who are really pulling their punches on this one. Are you fucking kidding?

[im2kull]

They should be lucky that real CS isn't being used in Ferguson..

Yes, thank god for the benevolent police, who are really pulling their punches on this one. Are you fucking kidding?

I don't get what you're saying. The Police have been standing down largely compared to earlier in the week, and part of that is using weaker tear gas and not responding to the looting of stores. Funny how people cry foul, so they let things go wild, then people cry foul again for the police not supporting them! You can't have it both ways!