KCRag Forum

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:14 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:33 pm

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:12 pm I was thinking that ridership was always the issue and it seems that our transit is basically built to service those who need it, not necessarily those who may want to use it. I live in the Northland, and I work downtown. If there was a dedicated rail service I'd love to park & ride.

I know there is a bus route and even a spot for me to park and ride. But then getting to downtown on the bus takes as long if not longer than it would be for me to drive. There is no upside for me and those like me to use public transit. So that means ridership is typically those who must rely on it.

So you have service that meets the needs, barely, of those who rely on it 100% for the most part. That group is limited in ridership and funds to be able to charge riders. So you have a real mess of funding & usage and I'm not sure how or if you will ever solve it.

Maybe if the Metro grows more overall and we creep closer to 3 million Metro wide the traffic will get worse and mass transit becomes more of a need. We shal see but I just do not see it happening, even though it needs to and should.

Even if you reintroduced fares they aren't very elastic, topping out at maybe $2 or $2.50 (congrats! now you have maybe $20 million in fare revenue to operate a $120 million system!). Driving your own car essentially requires no transaction per trip like transit does so you have to take that into account in a city with no congestion and sprawling land use that makes trips very long in distance. Transit trips will ALWAYS take longer in this setup because you have to stop to provide access. Adding stops/access makes trips slower than driving. People choose transit in other cities because there is congestion, parking is not as plentiful as KC, or they aren't as sprawled as KC so the travel time difference isn't a noticeable.

Seriously, we are VERY sprawled with NO congestion and LOTS of parking everywhere. It's bad math for "choice" transit use.

I know it hurts to acknowledge that we build a transit system mostly for those in need, but that's what will work with our terrible land use. If the system ends up being good enough for many others to take short trips and rely less on their car, so be it. Converse to that is the eco devo focused projects like streetcar, but those would not be built everywhere (just where the land use supports it).

Well said, and it will be an issue that will be with us for a long time. Maybe with more residents within the central city/downtown transit can see a boost but who knows. Until then it will remain a system that addresses best it can the needs of those who must rely on it. I’d love for it to be as best as it can but not sure what that investment looks like & the Roi. Like it or not those are the metrics that move the needle. So we shall see. Hopefully with our growth as a city we will see benefits and not look at it through a lens of a welfare program

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:07 am Street car will be a nice tourist way to get from things in the River market to The Plaza. Sure it will have some legit commuter usage but mostly a weekend way to get around.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:18 pm I promise you ridership of the new river-to-UMKC route will be more work/school focused (I don't like the word "commute" because it's not a destination) than the downtown segment. Saturdays will still represent peak because of zero fare and the number of activity centers linked, but the weekdays will be majority work/school. The current Main MAX ridership is just too good of a comp to avoid.

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:09 pm KCATA having a strategy meeting with "InfraStrategies LLC" tomorrow AM. This group looks to do strategic capital plan and project finance advisory. The experience tab on their website is full of multi-billion dollar LRT lines and metro transit expansion packages across North Amerca.

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:05 pm I can not begin to describe how many UMKC students will benefit by the streetcar, and are forced to walk insane distances to get to school from apartments. This will be huge for them.

GRID wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:39 pm What in the hell has happened to KC's bus system??? Seems like it will take a miracle just to get the system back up to where it was in the 90's.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:42 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:39 pm What in the hell has happened to KC's bus system??? Seems like it will take a miracle just to get the system back up to where it was in the 90's.

Mainly? Lack of funding from the region…but mostly no drivers. Like no where even remotely close to enough drivers

GRID wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:55 pm Come on. Every city is dealing with driver shortages etc and KC's bus system has been in a downward fall prior to the recent labor issues.

Just excuses. Always excuses.

Same with the lack of buses at KCI to rental car and parking. BWI still has plenty of buses. They find a way to make it work. Pay drivers 80k, purchase articulated buses. Whatever it takes to not have to wait 30 minutes for an airport shuttle. Same with KC's city buses. I mean they made it free, but now the bus system in KC is probably one of the worst in the country. What's the point of making it free if it's totally unusable.

I just don't see how people can be excited about the tram line when the bus system is so bad there.

normalthings wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:59 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:55 pm Come on. Every city is dealing with driver shortages etc and KC's bus system has been in a downward fall prior to the recent labor issues.

Just excuses. Always excuses.

Same with the lack of buses at KCI to rental car and parking. BWI still has plenty of buses. They find a way to make it work. Pay drivers 80k, purchase articulated buses. Whatever it takes to not have to wait 30 minutes for an airport shuttle. Same with KC's city buses. I mean they made it free, but now the bus system in KC is probably one of the worst in the country. What's the point of making it free if it's totally unusable.

I just don't see how people can be excited about the tram line when the bus system is so bad there.

Cost to make it free was pretty minimal, not that the city filled the gap iirc

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:02 pm On the bright side it won’t really matter for people on Main in a couple years atleast

GRID wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:55 pm Come on. Every city is dealing with driver shortages etc and KC's bus system has been in a downward fall prior to the recent labor issues.

Just excuses. Always excuses.

Same with the lack of buses at KCI to rental car and parking. BWI still has plenty of buses. They find a way to make it work. Pay drivers 80k, purchase articulated buses. Whatever it takes to not have to wait 30 minutes for an airport shuttle. Same with KC's city buses. I mean they made it free, but now the bus system in KC is probably one of the worst in the country. What's the point of making it free if it's totally unusable.

That downtown transit center looks like it should be in Jeff City or something. Sorry, this just bugs me. I grew up riding buses there and always wanted the system to be better, I never thought that 20 years later it would be a fraction of the size it was when I used it every day in the 80's and 90's. Buses are the core of any transit system.

I just don't see how people can be excited about the tram line when the bus system is so bad there.