Regional Transit Coordination

[GRID]

^ the KS side is toxic to KCMO. I see it more now that I have left KC than when I lived there. Sorry.

It's a fine line of trying to "be nice" about it and not make things worse vs bending over and taking it up the ass from KS.

KC could easily be a rival to Minneapolis, Denver, Nashville today if it were not for Kansas. The suburbs around here are far more impressive than freaking Overland Park and I still see more hate from JoCo people toward KCMO on social media etc than I do even here from the most snobby parts of VA and MD.

I think people in KC are so used to it they don't even know what's happened and that it's still happening. KC has been destroyed by economic migration to KS and many people in the KS suburbs enjoy it. Till I see a real economic migration back to KCMO, I'm not buying that things have changed much.

You can pretend like it's not a problem, but it is. KCMO just needs to take care of itself. Do not waste resources and time trying to involve KS. It's great to run some buses over there etc, but other than that, I just think it's a waste of time and counterproductive.

[earthling]

^Sounds like unhealthy isolationism a la Trump. Collaboration has always been better in the end over isolation throughout history of civilization, while competition is still going to be a reality - the key is to find mutually beneficial opportunities. Time to stop feeding the hate. And need to get over the past, what's done is done.

[GRID]

^Sounds like unhealthy isolationism a la Trump. Collaboration has always been better in the end over isolation throughout history of civilization, while competition is still going to be a reality - the key is to find mutually beneficial opportunities. Time to stop feeding the hate.

Not saying isolation. I'm saying that KCMO can be the better partner and work with JoCo on better transit, but be careful what you wish for.

I guarantee you that JoCo does not nor will have the best interest of KCMO in mind even if they do agree to do something big with KCMO (honestly very unlikely).

KCMO and Jackson County have the population and resources to do a lot more within their own jurisdictions without giving people more reasons to do business and live in Johnson County.

I don't think you realize how fragile KCMO's economy still is and how much power could still migrate to KS over the next 20 years. Jackson County needs a shit ton of investment. Concentrate on that before worrying about Metcalf Ave which can easily take care of itself.

[earthling]

Right of course JoCo doesn't have KCMO best interest in mind and shouldn't have to, which is why each 'side' should seek mutually beneficial opportunities while acknowledging competition is a reality. KCMO is getting its mojo back, is a great time for collaboration but sure, cautiously.

[GRID]

It's a fine line that has to be walked for sure. Look at what St Louis City deals with in their relations with St Louis County. And they are in the same state. KCMO has some momentum (if city hall doesn't kill it), but JoCo is now the big boy of the metro and their growth will only continue. They will throw a party the day they become larger than Jackson County which is inevitable.

All I'm saying is that KCMO needs to concentrate on making KCMO better. I'm glad you have the patience to be a more of a partner to JoCo, but after watching that county destroy my home city for decades and then act like JoCo is some gods gift to America. My patience has been gone for a long time.

The only part of metro KC even worth a darn is central KCMO. JoCo and the MO suburbs are all just super overated sprawl, especially Johnson County. And KCK is well KCK.

Concentrate on KCMO. That's all I'm saying. Cooperate with KS, but concentrate on KCMO. Don't take the foot off the gas with bringing back KCMO.

[earthling]

Concentrate on KCMO. That's all I'm saying. Cooperate with KS, but concentrate on KCMO. Don't take the foot off the gas with bringing back KCMO.

^Sounds good. Can project that without your clear and constant messages of hate for KS. Doesn't help.

[FangKC]

I'm sorry Earthing, On this, GRID is exactly right. I'm going to assume you must be inexperienced with some of the ugly history of this Metro.

If there has been ANY ISOLATIONISM, it's been in and from Johnson County. Johnson County's basic premise among real estate developers was to protect white people from exposure to "urban life" i.e. people of color. My father sold real estate even before I was born in 1962. The entire purpose of these subdivisions was to give white people in KCMO a place to flee black people. After the 1968 riots, white people in KCMO sold houses at a loss to flee to Johnson County. However, this was happening before those riots and even before my birth.

Johnson County has always tried to keep KCMO at arm's length.

[earthling]

So are hate posts about KS the right approach moving forward? It's toward WyCo as well. You just gave him a free pass to continue. I agree with a lot of his end point assessments (and bring them up myself), but the KS hatred approach isn't exactly a way forward. I get the hate on Plaza for Nichols history as well but unhelpful to push it in an effort to move things forward.

Your main premise is about the ugly past, not moving forward. Most any reasonable psychologist would suggest embracing undesirable things about the past is not healthy. Even worse to propagate it to others.

[FangKC]

I am not advocating anyone promoting hate. They are not hate posts simply because someone is pointing out certain negative realities historically and in the present. The author is not being negative in this instance; they are pointing out negative realities.

However, on this point, one has to understand that there can be no real cooperation when one party has had a long history of not wanting to cooperate. There are still a lot of people in power in Johnson County that don't really want to cooperate with KCMO on anything. Maybe the younger generation will, and once the older set dies off, things like that can happen.

It gives me no pleasure to say any of this.

But back to transit. There might be parties talking about improving transit in Johnson County, and perhaps connecting a streetcar line to Metcalf. But that is talk. We don't yet have any evidence the funding will follow through, or that voters in Johnson County would support it enough to tax themselves.

[earthling]

^He has a recent history of many posts that are essentially hate towards KS, including WyCo - and pretty blatant on other sites you may not be aware of.

Back to regional transit, cooperation that is mutually beneficial is a reasonable approach. If it's not generally mutual, don't go there. Maybe I'm too trusting but I am a fan of cautious collaboration in the bigger picture even given the risk of one side eventually exploiting the other. Is nearly impossible to negotiate an exact balance and one 'side' may benefit more. Is unfortunate we are still even talking 'sides' instead of one metro but can't really escape it.

Union Station was a rare example that worked (could argue MO side benefited more from that). If distrust won out, Union Station may have been torn down. Need to find other opportunities. Regional transit is a candidate because it's needed. If KS doesn't want it then so it goes but that's sidetracking the original topic last page which were polarizing attacks on KS.

[GRID]

Earthling. FangKC Nailed it.

And show me where I have hated on WyCo other than the FACT that they have literally ignored nearly their entire city to develop open land in the middle of nowhere. I still can not believe that with all the publicly subsidized stuff out by the speedway that some of that couldn't have been built in downtown KCK. The soccer stadium, the Cerner buildings. Any of it.

I have always supported KCK and have always wished them the best because I have always wanted that city to be a true urban companion to KCMO. So that's why I call KCK a "joke". I think village west is retarded. But that does not mean I hate KCK. I actually really wish the city would get it together and create a downtown that could really compliment KCMO. But I don't see that happening. Not in the next 20 years anyway.

You think I enjoy hating 1/3 of the KC area? Not at all. I don't hate the MD and VA suburbs. I totally enjoy this entire metro area. I only wish I could feel the same for KC.

Kansas has torn KC apart and not a lot has changed in that regard other than more people live downtown now. As a born and raised KCMO guy, that is something that's hard to just accept and move on especially when it's still very much in the culture of the region to push JoCo to be the core of the metro with an urban district next to it that happens to be in Missouri.

[earthling]

^Whatever word you want to use - you proclaimed 'screw JoCo' on last page, not helping your case. Whatever the word that represents that frankly you do feed the polarizing state line divisiveness here more than others (almost a consistent manifesto) when KC needs more cooperation as a metro. Fang nailed it from your perspective because he's also defending a (rare) comment that feeds the division as well (I've been guilty of it at times in past and trying to move on).

I can understand the frustration with the past but it's time to move on and move forward. You guys are bringing up a valid major issue with the metro while simultaneously contributing to divisiveness. Meanwhile apparently I'm the naive one seeking reasonable mutual collaboration. A new adult generation is coming to kcrag and we have impact, think about a better approach for them.

[FangKC]

Earthing, pointing out something that does exist is not feeding division. KCMO has been Charlie Brown to Lucy's football tactics for years, and being skeptical of anything they say or do is not being negative or divisive.

If two children are hitting each other constantly it's not negative or feeding division for parents to observe and comment on the behavior.

[earthling]

^Agree if it's just pointing it out but there's more going on in the message than that. What I'm not seeing is support for collaboration but rather distrust based on past. Union Station would probably have been torn down if distrust won out at the time. Bi-state collaboration won.

[AlkaliAxel]

You can say in your opinion that the JoCo suburbs are overrated, but the fact of the matter is that they aren't ranked that way. Overland Park is consistently ranked Top5 in the country due to the schools, costs, job, parks, etc. I know what they did 50 years ago, but it's over and done.

Do you know that essentially every major Midwestern city except about 3 have basically been hollowed out to the core? The only reason KC metro is one of the very few to buck that trend is because we had incredible suburbs that made up for it. Not everyone wants to move to a city, many want a suburban place like JoCo. And again, I agree that we shouldn't be partnering with them on rail and stupid projects which aren't in the overall metro's interest- but there is this constant belief that if Kansas grows then Missouri can't. It's not a zero sum game.

Here's the key moving forward: I think the partnership the KC metro has with JoCo could be an amazing thing long term- soon in the future we can offer each. person the best of both of either world of their choosing- either an amazing urban life, or an amazing suburban family life. Very few metro's in this country can do both at a high level. That's the golden goose I think we have going forward.

[FangKC]

^Agree if it's just pointing it out but there's more going on in the message than that. What I'm not seeing is support for collaboration but rather distrust based on past. Union Station would probably have been torn down if distrust won out at the time. Bi-state collaboration won.

The bi-state funding for Union Station was likely only passed because so many former KCMO residents, who had migrated to Johnson County over the 50 years before that election (1996), were at least nostalgic about their childhood memories of Union Station enough to vote for saving it.

There were discussions about additional bi-state cooperation plans in 2000, 2004, and 2006. Johnson County never bought in.

The 2008 talk included a bi-state agreement that would have included Johnson County in upgrading both sports stadiums. Again, their leadership didn't agree to move forward.

[earthling]

Here's the key moving forward: I think the partnership the KC metro has with JoCo could be an amazing thing long term- soon in the future we can offer each. person the best of both of either world of their choosing- either an amazing urban life, or an amazing suburban family life. Very few metro's in this country can do both at a high level. That's the golden goose I think we have going forward.

Good to hear that from a 20 something. Hopefully the metro can move on and not dwell on divisions of the past, but there will be competition and can't really change that at this point. Would suggest acknowledging the competition and keep trying to collaborate anyway, not use it as a means to propagate skepticism and distrust.

[horizons82]

These screeds against JoCo sidestep the simple questions to answer:

A) Do you want JoCo contributing its (hefty) economic power towards the regional transit tax?
B) If so, what is the politically & financially viable reward to JoCo for joining a regional tax?

[alejandro46]

I’m not sure how legally this would work, but basically I see a regional tax proposal being more 4 separate initiatives. Each county decides to tax themselves. Then they allocate the funding to RideKC just like we do now. The transit authority splits investments up generally proportionally and upon a general plan and goals already established. If the county doesn’t vote, they don’t get service improvement. So this whole idea is not that JoCo or Clay county or anywhere is detracting from the city as so much as they’re detracting from themselves. Sure, some projects may be better funded by a unified regional tax, but generally investment in the counties in my opinion should reflect how much money they can raise from the county for opex+ local march for going after fed&state.

[beautyfromashes]

Good to hear that from a 20 something. Hopefully the metro can move on and not dwell on divisions of the past, but there will be competition and can't really change that at this point. Would suggest acknowledging the competition and keep trying to collaborate anyway, not use it as a means to propagate skepticism and distrust.

Personally, I'd like a little retribution before ending this border war. The KS suburbs pillaged the MO side for over 50 years now. I'd like to see the opposite happen for a few decades before playing nice. I sure don't want to throw them connection to our revitalization so they can take advantage of it. They don't contribute much of anything for the social issues the metro faces in regards to homelessness or affordable housing or pay for civic programs that benefit society, the arts, don't fund stadiums or the zoo. Attempt to steal every good corporation, the stadiums, airport, American Royal. To me, they're a bad actor and there's no reason to connect to an area that is SO self-serving and will only contribute to projects that are a net benefit to them directly. Why?