KCRag Forum

A business owner on 31st Street is telling me that Bridgeport Church is moving into El Torreon Ballroom.
Anyone hear anything about this possibility?
The former tenant, Cowtown Mallroom, closed up shop this past weekend.

For fucks sake. A church taking over ANOTHER venue? And yes, I know that El Torreon hasn't held shows in quite some time, but it gets on my nerves that in the urban core of Kansas City you can throw a rock in the air and it'll land on some hip church.

Lame.

Sucks that there isn't a music venue going in there. But the hipster churches have brought money and families into midtown. I don't know much about Bridgeport, but if they're anything like Redeemer, this is a net positive for the area.

ColumbusParkian wrote:For fucks sake. A church taking over ANOTHER venue? And yes, I know that El Torreon hasn't held shows in quite some time, but it gets on my nerves that in the urban core of Kansas City you can throw a rock in the air and it'll land on some hip church.

Throw more rocks!

Here is what apparently happened:

The church was going to be moving into space on the first floor and Cowtown was going to still be operating in the upstairs ballroom space. This is why they changed from Sundays to Saturdays to not have conflicts with parking.

Due to some sort of permit/inspections that the church needed, some city inspectors were brought in and hammered Cowtown with some expensive building work that would be required to stay open (apparently including things like a passenger elevator).

I'm not sure if the church is still going to try to make the building work. Cowtown Mallroom is looking at other spaces in the immediate area.

Did Bridgeport purchase or sign a lease?

WinchesterMysteryHouse wrote:Did Bridgeport purchase or sign a lease?

I believe they were going to do a lease-to-own/owner finance type of deal. I would guess that is no longer happening.

Looks like the flea market has a new spot lined up and is planning on reopening fairly soon.

That's interesting. The stories I've been reading from Cowtown vendors make it sound like the church kicked them out.

Sounds like the owner went from having a building that was about to be full,
to one that is fully empty.

Ruh roh.

Man, no matter what the outcome here, I am disappointed. Was hoping that cowtown getting "kicked out" might have meant the building had sold and plans were a brewin' for renovation into a sweet music venue/restaurant/bar/theater to anchor 31st/Martini Corner. How wrong I was.

A church in this building would SO lame. And the continued operation of a small flea market a few days a week isn't a whole lot better. Why hasn't this corridor taken off in a more meaningful way over the past decade? I seem to recall vague plans to renovate El Torreon some years ago?

The Cowtown Mallroom was in it's basic form, a junk store. There were a few vendors that had some unique stuff, but it was a Thrift Store/Swap & Shop type of place. Actually, it was lower quality and less selection. A lot of dusty junk.

ColumbusParkian wrote:For fucks sake. A church taking over ANOTHER venue? And yes, I know that El Torreon hasn't held shows in quite some time, but it gets on my nerves that in the urban core of Kansas City you can throw a rock in the air and it'll land on some hip church.

Kind of the opposite of what is happening in Europe where churches are regularly being converted into bars and restaurants (and homes). Several very old churches in the city I lived in while in Scotland were functioning as bars. Apparently, the trend is beginning in the US too....

http://convertedchurches.wordpress.com/

I'm more bewildered by the city. It seems that KCMO is trying to improve itself by holding up buyers of property the moment they scent someone who may be worried by a nuisance violation. Which honestly just drives investment away when done with a hammer. And KCMO is hammering. A bit of considered examination of projects might serve the city better.

Highlander wrote: Kind of the opposite of what is happening in Europe where churches are regularly being converted into bars and restaurants (and homes). Several very old churches in the city I lived in while in Scotland were functioning as bars. Apparently, the trend is beginning in the US too....

http://convertedchurches.wordpress.com/

Yeah, Europe as a whole is becoming significantly less religious, only about half believe there is a god and even less identify with a religion, so a lot of empty churches available. The US is rising in those who claim no religion (from <10% a couple decades ago to near 20% now and rising) but it seems many who identify with a religion are becoming more churchy. Various explanations are that American TV evangelism, high mobility, insecurity, growing distrust in science and polarizing politics with a faction that promotes theocracy are influencing more religious extroversion in US compared to low key religious dependency/introversion in Europe (outside immigrants). So even though non-religious is growing, those who are religious seem to be getting louder and more communal.

In KC there's a 'hipster' church trend in city core lately who apparently don't care for stodgy trad church environment and prefer warehouse conversion type places. I'm not sure but it seems they lean more spiritual than say bible literalists.

BTW, overall KC is less religious than the largest US metros (falls around the middle of about 50 metros) according to...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/1 ... 22644.html

If 50% of US is religiously 'adherent' or 'active' and near 20% calling themselves non-religious, will be interesting to see how the rest of the 30% play out over next couple decades because it appears both non-religious and religiously active are growing in US, especially religiously extroverted.

earthling wrote: it appears both non-religious and religiously active are growing in US, especially religiously extroverted.

At least to some degree, I imagine these two facts feed off each other. Increasing non-religious may galvanize the religious to be more vocal, while increasingly vocal religious may push moderates and sympathizers toward non-religion. It probably doesn't help that almost everyone I've ever known who I'd consider "vocally religious" is either 50+ or dead. Among my peers, I can count the vocally religious I know on one hand, and among younger generations, I don't know any.

Is curious though to compare to Europe.

Younger Americans more and more buy less into traditional religion but many still have a dependency on the idea of a higher being to explain the world around them or to address needs that aren't being met. After having kids, the US trend is apparently that a good chunk embrace the communal aspect and some water down traditional religion to adapt to their contemp tastes (ie, hipster Christians) where in Europe god(s) are less considered as an explanation (maybe it's the metric system, not kidding), they seem to be becoming less communal and don't bother adapting ideas of supernatural forces into contemp views like modern Americans do. Another view is that because Americans are more mobile than Europeans, many rely on communal 'congregation' as a way to adapt to a new city or area. And religious congregation is more established in US than other mediums.

And then there is the introverted/extroverted view. Have run across anthro journals that discuss this, couldn't find a link of those but did find this one that has similar observation...

Extroverts are usually more religious, more likely to literally interpret religious doctrine, more likely to believe in their political party's platforms, more likely to organize themselves into social groups, and more likely to align their beliefs to what other people believe in those same social groups.

On the other hand, introverts are typically less religious, less likely to participate in organized groups, less likely to believe in their political party's platforms, and less likely to give as much weight to what other people believe, inside or outside of their social groups.

http://neuropolitics.org/defaultmar06.asp

The US tends to be considered more extroverted than Europe and those in US who are introverted do seem to be less interested in religion or less likely to consider supernatural forces could address needs that aren't being met and would address it themselves. The highly extroverted might be fundies, TV evangelist enthusiasts or more subtly, talk about church more often in the workplace. Seems the US trend will be a growing force of both and that the mildly religious will shrink, especially in this era of polarized views.

I don't recall anyone discussing church in the workplace in the 80s/90s unless asking something that leads to it. I talk to people around US every workday and churchyness or a 'praise Jesus' type comment comes up unsolicited more often than past, even in large teleconference meetings. The city with most church talk in meetings - Minneapolis. But to be fair they can also bring up other unrelated topics in meetings more often than others.

mean wrote:

earthling wrote: Among my peers, I can count the vocally religious I know on one hand, and among younger generations, I don't know any.

Could it simply be generational perception?
Because if, by "vocal religious", you mean not just devout or even church-going but prone to impart their faith into almost any aspect of their conversation, I know more than a sizable chunk that are my peers and younger.

And I wouldn't say that moderates are pushed into non-religion (unless you mean simply non-denomination or non-church-going); rather many are simply more likely to keep their faith even more closely to themselves and only discuss it among those who they know are of moderate persuasion.

^quote edit mishap. mean said that.

IraGlacialis wrote: if, by "vocal religious", you mean not just devout or even church-going but prone to impart their faith into almost any aspect of their conversation, I know more than a sizable chunk that are my peers and younger.

Yeah, I mean not just casually, personally religious, but actively, vocally, even loudly religious in a way that I'd roughly equate to the teenager who discovers punk rock and revamps their entire wardrobe, personality, and hairstyle, then evangelizes the holy word of Ramones records to all their friends who still think Bieber is the thing.