OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

[grovester]

i'm really not buying into the save the bridge for $50 million train. I've walked the bridge countless times, the views are okay but nothing that you don't get from the River Market. The project is billed as an active park but KC has always failed at upkeep and activation. For the cost to save Broadway Bridge, we could build a new pedestrian bridge over the MO from the main part of River Market. Even better, we could build a dedicated Bike-Ped-Streetcar bridge to NKC.


This project is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

That may be true, but is not an option and will not happen.

[TheLastGentleman]

i'm really not buying into the save the bridge for $50 million train. I've walked the bridge countless times, the views are okay but nothing that you don't get from the River Market. The project is billed as an active park but KC has always failed at upkeep and activation. For the cost to save Broadway Bridge, we could build a new pedestrian bridge over the MO from the main part of River Market. Even better, we could build a dedicated Bike-Ped-Streetcar bridge to NKC.


This project is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Where are they building $50m ped bridges? Do they have landscaping?

Where in the river market to you get these views?







The problem that exists is literally having zero attractions in the northwest corner of river market. That's a major problem, especially since modot is destroying what little was there

[normalthings]

i'm really not buying into the save the bridge for $50 million train. I've walked the bridge countless times, the views are okay but nothing that you don't get from the River Market. The project is billed as an active park but KC has always failed at upkeep and activation. For the cost to save Broadway Bridge, we could build a new pedestrian bridge over the MO from the main part of River Market. Even better, we could build a dedicated Bike-Ped-Streetcar bridge to NKC.


This project is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

That may be true, but is not an option and will not happen.

Why aren't they? We are spending just as much money to study saving broadway as we are extending streetcar to NKC. We have a new ped connection coming already to Harlem so its not like we really need another. What we will need is a way to get streetcar to NKC and it would be around the same construction budget (ballpark numbers).

[normalthings]

Where are they building $50m ped bridges? Do they have landscaping?

Bob Kerrey (Omaha), is a 3000 ft bike-ped bridge built for $22 million opened in 2008 (80% Federal Grant). A new construction ped bridge to rival Broadway Bridge would be 1,000-1250 feet. $50 million, the Broadway Renovation cost, would be around enough for a combined bike-ped and streetcar bridge to NKC.

Do they have landscaping?

As addressed in 1st comment, KC always fails at upkeep and maintenance and nothing shows that won't happen here.

Where in the river market to you get these views?

From basically any point above the river. the view actually improves towards the east..

The problem that exists is literally having zero attractions in the northwest corner of river market. That's a major problem, especially since modot is destroying what little was there

Umm there is more going on there than there is to the north......

[grovester]

i'm really not buying into the save the bridge for $50 million train. I've walked the bridge countless times, the views are okay but nothing that you don't get from the River Market. The project is billed as an active park but KC has always failed at upkeep and activation. For the cost to save Broadway Bridge, we could build a new pedestrian bridge over the MO from the main part of River Market. Even better, we could build a dedicated Bike-Ped-Streetcar bridge to NKC.


This project is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

That may be true, but is not an option and will not happen.

Why aren't they? We are spending just as much money to study saving broadway as we are extending streetcar to NKC. We have a new ped connection coming already to Harlem so its not like we really need another. What we will need is a way to get streetcar to NKC and it would be around the same construction budget (ballpark numbers).

I don't know, mostly because the structure is already there.

Y'all are naive if you think we'll get $50 mil to spend on some other cool project.

They will tear down the bridge and we'll get nothing.

[TheLastGentleman]

Bob Kerrey (Omaha), is a 3000 ft bike-ped bridge

Do they have landscaping?

As addressed in 1st comment, KC always fails at upkeep and maintenance and nothing shows that won't happen here.

I assume you're opposed to the south loop cap on those grounds? Or the Green Line proposed for the freighthouse area?

Where in the river market to you get these views?

From basically any point above the river. the view actually improves towards the east..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess

The problem that exists is literally having zero attractions in the northwest corner of river market. That's a major problem, especially since modot is destroying what little was there

Umm there is more going on there than there is to the north......

Like what?

[GRID]

The ability to remove the north loop and bring 9 highway down to grade is well worth this bridge.

How so?

This is only building more freeways downtown.

It will also make the narrow west loop over capacity pulling more traffic off the interstates and will make it difficult to properly rebuild the SW corner of the loop.

I just don't get why all the interstate traffic can't be routed on the east and south loops and 169 and Burlington simply become local access bridges for downtown.

I just don't see Modot having the skills or the money to do much of anything with the north loop and these new high speed flyovers are only going to make things worse.

[GRID]

i'm really not buying into the save the bridge for $50 million train. I've walked the bridge countless times, the views are okay but nothing that you don't get from the River Market. The project is billed as an active park but KC has always failed at upkeep and activation. For the cost to save Broadway Bridge, we could build a new pedestrian bridge over the MO from the main part of River Market. Even better, we could build a dedicated Bike-Ped-Streetcar bridge to NKC.


This project is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Not a bad idea. Either way, the bridge has to be part of a bigger project. The bridge can't just stand alone on its own.

[normalthings]

Bob Kerrey (Omaha), is a 3000 ft bike-ped bridge

Do they have landscaping?

As addressed in 1st comment, KC always fails at upkeep and maintenance and nothing shows that won't happen here.

I assume you're opposed to the south loop cap on those grounds? Or the Green Line proposed for the freighthouse area?

Where in the river market to you get these views?

From basically any point above the river. the view actually improves towards the east..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess

The problem that exists is literally having zero attractions in the northwest corner of river market. That's a major problem, especially since modot is destroying what little was there

Umm there is more going on there than there is to the north......

Like what?

South Loop offers a lot more per $50 million spent and as proposed here, would mostly be maintained, operated, and programmed by Cordish (which I believe you did not support)

[normalthings]

That may be true, but is not an option and will not happen.

Why aren't they? We are spending just as much money to study saving broadway as we are extending streetcar to NKC. We have a new ped connection coming already to Harlem so its not like we really need another. What we will need is a way to get streetcar to NKC and it would be around the same construction budget (ballpark numbers).

I don't know, mostly because the structure is already there.

Y'all are naive if you think we'll get $50 mil to spend on some other cool project.

They will tear down the bridge and we'll get nothing.

NKC Streetcar is being studied at the same time and Highway 9 to grade was already studied. I don't exactly see why we cant commit $50 million of highway or bid-ped funds to either of those projects in the 2022-2024 timeframe but would be able to for Broadway Bridge. I understand if we didn't have "studied" alternatives but we do. Maybe even throw the loop cap into this pool of studied peer projects in need of construction funds.

[TheLastGentleman]

South Loop offers a lot more per $50 million spent and as proposed here, would mostly be maintained, operated, and programmed by Cordish (which I believe you did not support)

[AlkaliAxel]

I agree with normalthings. The bridge is worthless until north loop is removed and taken care of IMO. If we're gonna spend $50 mil I can think of better projects for that. Streetcar would better money spent.

[grovester]

Why aren't they? We are spending just as much money to study saving broadway as we are extending streetcar to NKC. We have a new ped connection coming already to Harlem so its not like we really need another. What we will need is a way to get streetcar to NKC and it would be around the same construction budget (ballpark numbers).

I don't know, mostly because the structure is already there.

Y'all are naive if you think we'll get $50 mil to spend on some other cool project.

They will tear down the bridge and we'll get nothing.

NKC Streetcar is being studied at the same time and Highway 9 to grade was already studied. I don't exactly see why we cant commit $50 million of highway or bid-ped funds to either of those projects in the 2022-2024 timeframe but would be able to for Broadway Bridge. I understand if we didn't have "studied" alternatives but we do. Maybe even throw the loop cap into this pool of studied peer projects in need of construction funds.

All great projects that I support.

I don't agree that they are necessarily choices. All money doesn't come from the same pot or is needed at the same time.

I am also suspicious of the rush to demolish which smacks of the routine we go through with old buildings.

[alejandro46]

In order of priorities KC and region should be focusing, I also agree this should not be at the top. The new bridge is fine, yes I am sad it's not more "architectually pleasing," but it works and I am happy that it is a direct connect to 35S. I am typically in favor of reducing/removing highways where possible. Hence, I am in favor of removing the entire N. Loop and re-placing with Independence Avenue at grade and restoring the original street grid. However, that would be very difficult without a new bridge in place. By keeping the existing bridge, KCMO is solving for a pedestrian path that already exists on the new bridge, and a park which we alrady have in Berkley. It's another huge maintenance liability.

Moving Hwy9 at grade and building a streetcar to NKC will have a significant regional impact, activating new land for development on both sides of the bridge and leading to better regional interconnectvitiy. Although the two projects aren't per se going head to head, but spending the effort to come up with $25m for 9hwy plus a TDD and federal grant for streetcar seems like a way better use of resources than trying to save the bridge. I understand where people are coming from, however, when resources are streached thin keeping the bridge won't have as much of an impact per dollar as some other capital improvement projects in the area could have, in my opinion..

[AlkaliAxel]

I’m guessing if they removed the north loop that MO would want alot of development to be built on it so that they could recoup the money they spent to remove the highway? And that’s the only way they could justify spending on the project.

[normalthings]

I don't know, mostly because the structure is already there.

Y'all are naive if you think we'll get $50 mil to spend on some other cool project.

They will tear down the bridge and we'll get nothing.

NKC Streetcar is being studied at the same time and Highway 9 to grade was already studied. I don't exactly see why we cant commit $50 million of highway or bid-ped funds to either of those projects in the 2022-2024 timeframe but would be able to for Broadway Bridge. I understand if we didn't have "studied" alternatives but we do. Maybe even throw the loop cap into this pool of studied peer projects in need of construction funds.

All great projects that I support.

I don't agree that they are necessarily choices. All money doesn't come from the same pot or is needed at the same time.

I am also suspicious of the rush to demolish which smacks of the routine we go through with old buildings.

All these projects are being studied at around the same time and are very similar in nature: highway remediation + bike/ped and/or transit. Why wouldn’t at least one of them be able to pull from the same pot?

The save the bridge Zoom admits the bridge is rusting out. It’s time to say goodbye and use the money for a similar, but better project.

[grovester]

NKC Streetcar is being studied at the same time and Highway 9 to grade was already studied. I don't exactly see why we cant commit $50 million of highway or bid-ped funds to either of those projects in the 2022-2024 timeframe but would be able to for Broadway Bridge. I understand if we didn't have "studied" alternatives but we do. Maybe even throw the loop cap into this pool of studied peer projects in need of construction funds.

All great projects that I support.

I don't agree that they are necessarily choices. All money doesn't come from the same pot or is needed at the same time.

I am also suspicious of the rush to demolish which smacks of the routine we go through with old buildings.

All these projects are being studied at around the same time and are very similar in nature: highway remediation + bike/ped and/or transit. Why wouldn’t at least one of them be able to pull from the same pot?

The save the bridge Zoom admits the bridge is rusting out. It’s time to say goodbye and use the money for a similar, but better project.

If they are indeed able to come from the same pot and the city is able to dictate choices, I'd like someone to come out on the record to say that.

It feels like the north loop removal and bridge grade levelling is aspirational but not committed to, the kind of thing that goes away based on the whim of a new mayor or disgruntled east side council member.

The thing I like most about the bridge park, besides being bold, cool and transformative, is that the city came out and said "WE WANT THIS AND WE'RE GOING TO TRY AND DO IT!"

I understand that it ultimately might not pan out, but I don't understand how it got dismissed so quickly and why it needs to be demolished now.

[KCPowercat]

I’m guessing if they removed the north loop that MO would want alot of development to be built on it so that they could recoup the money they spent to remove the highway? And that’s the only way they could justify spending on the project.

Yeah that's the angle for MODOT, less maintenance, safer (get rid of all the off/on ramps) and they could sell back the land.

[Walker]

The Biz Journal article on Lucas's infrastructure priorities mentioned $50 million to renovate or $20 million to demo Broadway Bridge.

[normalthings]

The Biz Journal article on Lucas's infrastructure priorities mentioned $50 million to renovate or $20 million to demo Broadway Bridge.

I would rather demo, and use the $30 million to build bike/ped/rail to NKC....