OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

[normalthings]

There was a piece on the local news about detours for construction. They also interviewed someone on site who said that the low river levels have complicated construction. It was not explained exactly how the river level impacts construction. I could see how high level would cause problem but not low level. Anyone have any insight? It does seem that the normally ice choked river at this time of year being ice free would be helpful.

They are using barges to shuttle supplies and equipment. Water could be too low to do that?

[moderne]

That makes sense. If they have built temporary ramps into river and water drops below levels anticipated.

[KCPowercat]

^ I understand the route 9 plan was part of the initial plan, but nothing else mentioned in that report was. I'm pretty sure the plan was to tear down the old bridge and build a new one making sure that nobody going to and from I-35 had to tap their brakes. Throw a sidewalk on the new bridge and call it a day.

This plan has at least some thought put into how to make downtown better too.

Yes that was the plan and the enhancements part is new in a formal report respect. The saving of the BOB hasn't been a formal ask until this report. What I didn't think you were catching in prior conversations is the 9 highway thing and north loop removal were only possible according to their studies with this new bridge. This did a good job of recapping that.

[GRID]

^ I understand the route 9 plan was part of the initial plan, but nothing else mentioned in that report was. I'm pretty sure the plan was to tear down the old bridge and build a new one making sure that nobody going to and from I-35 had to tap their brakes. Throw a sidewalk on the new bridge and call it a day.

This plan has at least some thought put into how to make downtown better too.

Yes that was the plan and the enhancements part is new in a formal report respect. The saving of the BOB hasn't been a formal ask until this report. What I didn't think you were catching in prior conversations is the 9 highway thing and north loop removal were only possible according to their studies with this new bridge. This did a good job of recapping that.

Well if the north loop is removed and the city actually allows it to be developed (city hall seems to be anti development) or it's turned into a "proper" park and much of these improvements are done including saving the old bridge. I would be happy with that.

At least for now, the bridge is not being torn down. That's all you can ask for at this point.

[KCPowercat]

I'm just not sold we are going to keep it and make it that useful but I'd be happy if we did and it ended up being awesome.

[moderne]

Northbound 35 closure is to enable space for work to begin cutting into Quality Hill for new northbound lane. Girders for spans may be begun to be placed in May.

[AlkaliAxel]

I don't think north loop removal is a serious discussion until south loop cap is rolling

[DaveKCMO]

I don't think north loop removal is a serious discussion until south loop cap is rolling

That may be true, but that doesn't mean it's right.

[WoodDraw]

I don't think north loop removal is a serious discussion until south loop cap is rolling

That may be true, but that doesn't mean it's right.

They’re also completely different?

One is a park, the other is a historical change in how downtown functions.

I know you know this, but like, everyone does right?

[AlkaliAxel]

I don't think north loop removal is a serious discussion until south loop cap is rolling

That may be true, but that doesn't mean it's right.

They’re also completely different?

One is a park, the other is a historical change in how downtown functions.

I know you know this, but like, everyone does right?

Yes, but in the matter of "big projects concerning highways" I don't think they'll do anything until the smaller project (south loop) is moving first

[KCPowercat]

We should package it as one big project with phases to really show the big impact but this is KC we won't do that

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I mean, Axel isn’t totally wrong here. A Cap reduces the impact of more traffic on the 670 route, as you won’t have to deal with increased traffic noise, or more concentrated emissions right in the middle of DT, so the argument to remove NL becomes viable when the stakeholders around the trench won’t have a net negative effect from it, right?

[DaveKCMO]

You don't avoid or reduce any emissions with the cap. They're purposely avoiding a tunnel designation due to the high cost, so every thing bit of exhaust that's in that spot today is in that spot with a cap.

Not even sure the proposed design would divert any of the traffic noise, perhaps push it to the edges of the cap. If you've visited Klyde Warren Park, you still hear the roar of traffic below.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

If you've visited Klyde Warren Park, you still hear the roar of traffic below.

One end wouldn’t be much of an issue being covered by Bartel Hall, and depending on the end point of the being Grand or Oak would mean a vast majority of stake holders would no longer deal with the issue. Yes Klyde warren is loud at the edge, but you’d never know a highway ran underneath once you’re about 100’ or more from the edge

[FangKC]

Emissions will be less a problem as time passes and vehicle traffic becomes mostly electric.

[DaveKCMO]

Emissions will be less a problem as time passes and vehicle traffic becomes mostly electric.

Sure, but...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48944561

The government’s Air Quality Expert Group said particles from brake wear, tyre wear and road surface wear directly contribute to well over half of particle pollution from road transport.

[GRID]

We should package it as one big project with phases to really show the big impact but this is KC we won't do that

Exactly. I guess that's why I say keep saying that repurposing the Broadway Bridge is so important. If you look at the big picture of what downtown could be in another 15-20 years with the 670 cap, removal of the north loop etc, it would be a massive fail if the old Bridge were not part of that.

All these projects should be talked about as one big project, but they are not. Even the Broadway Bridge improvements they are talking about now have come recently. Long after the new bridge was designed, forced by backlash of installing such a boring freeway bridge with flyover ramps.

That's the last thing downtown KC needs. At least now people are starting to think a little more about the possibilities.

But then they release the plans for Barney Allis Plaza and I am taken back to reality lol.

[KCPowercat]

What exists in another city that you are thinking best case for a saved BOB would be. Right now to me it's a maybe cool thing to do but not even in the same sport as the other benefits like a north loop removal, 9 highway to grade, south loop cap, etc.

[AlkaliAxel]

My thinking on this was similar to the streetcar process. I think you do south loop cap first do "wet the appetite" for a larger north loop removal. These people have to be shown it in small bits first.

[WoodDraw]

I mean the streetcar has been incredibly successful here and it’s taking ages to extend it.

The US just sucks at infrastructure. It’s expensive, it’s litigated, and it’s done by piece, with everything studied again constantly.