OFFICIAL - Loews Convention Hotel (formerly Hyatt)

[KCPowercat]

I don't think most conventions are staying virtual. Too much lost in the ones I've been too in the past year. Nobody I know has enjoyed a virtual.conference or gotten much out of it.

I agree this is more impactful overall than 9/11.

[earthling]

Would expect conventions that involve physical interaction will return quicker, like CES and product shows. Some conventions that exchange ideas might take quite a bit longer to get back to normal if ever, especially if they have figured out how to effectively pull it off virtually recently and had good attendance.

Like Dave pointed out about sending 3 virtual instead of 1 physical to a conference... If a physical conference costs say $2K per head plus maybe $1K hotel/travel expenses each, that's $6K for 2 people. Or you can send 3 people to a $2K virtual conference for $6K w/out travel expenses. Conference organizers who have successfully figured out virtual might prefer virtual essentially forever in order to get higher attendance and higher profits. They don't have to deal with location/travel logistics or number of people that can fit. They can potentially handle thousands or tens of thousands more attendees than the old fashioned way. And with the cut costs for logistical setup and paying expenses for presenters, including their travel, the organizers can charge less per head yet bigger profits given increased scale. At least for the types of conventions that exchange ideas or mostly training.

Hybrids are also talked about in convention industry, which would still reduce travel/hotel usage long term. When virtual reality headsets go mainstream, the virtual convention industry will highly likely improve.

[KCPowercat]

I can see a lot of hybrid popping up but I'd wager a heavy sum that virtual only isn't going to be a thing. Much like the whole "no more offices". Not happening.

[earthling]

I haven't seen anyone with credibility talk about 'no more offices' but a realistic possibility is that office needs are cut down by 1/3 or more long term. Same could occur with physical convention biz, certain kinds of conventions/conferences, which obviously impacts travel industry too. BTW, virtual only conferences have been going on before COVID but probably not enough to impact travel. COVID just expanded it significantly and it's possible certain forms stick with it if more profitable.

[KCPowercat]

Exactly. They weren't popular pre-covid, they won't be popular post-covid.

[earthling]

Hope you're right but I wouldn't bet big on it. The longer we don't get back to normal, the more likely we get used to or adapt to new routines and don't go back in some cases, especially in cases where the different way is more cost effective or more convenient. Once virtual conference execution matures, it's apparently far more cost effective. And hybrids will cut down on travel some.

Sounds like COVID vaccines may be more effective at preventing illness than entirely preventing infection/spreading so this could go on for a while, especially if vax can't keep up with new strains. At some point we're just going to have to learn to live with it.

[KCPowercat]

or the longer this goes on the more people realize it's not ideal for the situations they are forced to make it work now. Virtual conferences are a perfect example of it. We've had them awhile and they have been more cost effective / convenient and not well used. Obviously not in all sectors but I haven't heard one person across any industry (I guess except Dave) say, man I really enjoy this virtual conference way more than in person, really got more out of it. I have a vested interest in things going back to "normal" so maybe I'm being overly positive and hopeful.

Where I see a bigger long term business/travel impact is that week to week consulting travel work and sales call work. Even there though people want that human touch element in many situations. They are "making it work" now but I don't see many excited/ready to make that the norm.

I haven't read where the vaxs don't prevent infection. I mean most of the studies were around finding out if vaccinated get "sick" symptoms as their success criteria but subsequent studies of Moderna I believe it was said the vax prevented infections as well.

Sorry, probably diverted this too much from the topic.

[shinatoo]

As much as I hate the conventions that I must attend, the virtual alternative just does not live up. The show floor is not as informative, and the networking is nonexistent.

The trend I see that is going to hurt conventions is manufacturers that are not going back because they are seeing more market penetration from using the money they would have spent on a convention for advertising and sales staff. Conventions in Vegas and Orlando are outrageously expensive for the presenters. That is going to have to change.

[beautyfromashes]

Conventions and sales will return with a vengeance. Executives love their strip clubs and subordinate trysts and piles of cocaine.

[earthling]

As much as I hate the conventions that I must attend, the virtual alternative just does not live up. The show floor is not as informative, and the networking is nonexistent.

^Are the conventions you attend just exchanging ideas or involve physical products/interaction? I'm talking just conferences/conventions that exchange ideas or mostly training that may have more success virtually when the format is mastered. That's a significant % of total industry.

[KCPowercat]

Mine are all learning and exchanging ideas and virtual stinks at both. I avoid the vendor space as much as possible.

[earthling]

^Is up to your manager though and he/she may want to send more to virtual than fewer involving travel expenses as virtual matures. VR headsets will eventually go mainstream too in future, likely to improve the experience.

And read this...
https://www.tsnn.com/news/10-prediction ... vents-2021

And this...
https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2020 ... ound-world

But as the pandemic forced many conferences to adopt virtual formats, the option to attend from home—often with discounted or free registration—led to surges in participation. A survey by Science Careers of 10 U.S.-based meetings of scientific societies across a variety of disciplines showed that most saw higher—and perhaps more diverse—attendance than in previous years.

If meeting organizers show better virtual attendance and ultimately higher profits, might be seeing a preference for it in some cases.

[shinatoo]

As much as I hate the conventions that I must attend, the virtual alternative just does not live up. The show floor is not as informative, and the networking is nonexistent.

^Are the conventions you attend just exchanging ideas or involve physical products/interaction? I'm talking just conferences/conventions that exchange ideas or mostly training that may have more success virtually when the format is mastered. That's a significant % of total industry.

Both.

[KCPowercat]

If $ was the only factor, we wouldn't be going to these conferences in the first place even 2 years ago.

[TrolliKC]

If $ was the only factor, we wouldn't be going to these conferences in the first place even 2 years ago.

Anecdotal, but I am personally familiar with 3 annual conferences. An accounting one in Vegas, a compliance one in Washington DC and a smaller one hosted here. To say the virtual experience is a flop is an understatement. If that's all people want then just do self-directed webinars of TED talks, etc. The pent up demand is pretty high for physical attendance.

[normalthings]

If $ was the only factor, we wouldn't be going to these conferences in the first place even 2 years ago.

Anecdotal, but I am personally familiar with 3 annual conferences. An accounting one in Vegas, a compliance one in Washington DC and a smaller one hosted here. To say the virtual experience is a flop is an understatement. If that's all people want then just do self-directed webinars of TED talks, etc. The pent up demand is pretty high for physical attendance.

My experiences at a firm heavily invested in virtual work points towards a rebound in in-person activities.

At least in our business, most of what could/should be done online already was. If anything, I think we were previously over weighted on online meetings and conferences and were likely going to shift backwards. Time will tell but online meetings for complex projects are not nearly as productive as in person ones.

Day - to - day work across many virtual teams was much much less productive than discussions between teams located in the same office. There was a clear spike in productivity when a person or team rotated into our office.

[earthling]

Time will tell. My experience has been opposite last 10 years. Far more effectiveness with online meetings, though was always dealing with multiple sites. Virtual may only be effective say 1/3 of time or with 1/3 of companies that adjust to it, but that's still a big impact on such things as travel.

[WoodDraw]

A lot of conferences can’t be done virtually. Maybe the continuing education stuff that are effectively just hotel bar tabs, but there are a lot where almost everything happens outside of the main events.

Getting everyone together in a city allows a lot to go on that you can’t replicate. I don’t think that’s going away.

[normalthings]

It appears that Loews has used the north side convention door to offload bus groups. Buses line up in front of Kauffman Center and then take turns offloading. It seems to work well enough. They gave themselves 4 main entrances (plus garage) which I think will be plenty once things get up and going again.

[earthling]

A lot of conferences can’t be done virtually. Maybe the continuing education stuff that are effectively just hotel bar tabs, but there are a lot where almost everything happens outside of the main events.

Getting everyone together in a city allows a lot to go on that you can’t replicate. I don’t think that’s going away.

Nobody said conferences are going away, but some may convert to virtual and hybrids long term, potentially enough to impact travel industry long term. Biz travel as well may reduce some long term as more companies get used to online meetings - travel meetings not going away, but reduced some. And office space demand potentially reduced as well as some (not necessarily most) companies stick with a higher % of WFH employees than before COVID - offices not going away but demand may be reduced long term.

The internet mostly (not entirely) killed or impacted video stores, book stores, music stores, traditional cab companies, print media, travel agency storefronts, now impacting physical clothing stores, etc. As tech focuses on an industry, it will probably impact at least some of the traditional format forever. Not to point of going away but reduced, to what degree is the question. COVID is accelerating some online transitions at faster pace than if COVID didn't happen.

Add to this that over the last 20+ years nearly every major city wanted to become a convention city, so there's a lot of competition with perhaps oversupply of convention space/hotels. We'll see how this plays out but not a given it returns back to 'normal'. There might be a new normal. And hybrid approaches would still cut down on travel/hotel usage. If the case, hopefully personal travel will eventually offset.